TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

[Mogobs30th]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

T-MILL and VENOM. I AGREE with all your points and back them up a 100%.

ONE THING.
REGARDING THE owner of that corvette:
The fact that the engine was EFFEED and ceased, was probably not disclosed to them. They just gave them 4500 and they went on their way. PROBABLY thought the car was either going to be parted out. or sold to someone else. (thats how alot of these dealers dealt with people)

and SURE mogobs has a point. (the owner can do what the hell they please)
BUT! going back on moral values and plane practicality and common sense. I GUARANTEE he or she did not know that there car was going to end up like it did.
(being that its a corvette, im sure they had an appreciation for American muscle)

IM SORRy, but if im selling my car. and i have 3 options all offering the same amount of money,

1st option. (owners gonna take care of it and continue to keep it nice)
2nt option. (owners gonna beat the hell out of it and treat it like a civic)
3rd option. (motor is going to be destroyed and the car is going to be scraped and crushed)

YOU damn well best believe im going to pick the 1st one.
i TAKE pride in what i have. and I value the work Ive done. I would never let that go to waste.
I think mogobs should watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IROtLfoKCLM

NOW honestly if that doesn't turn a bolt of frustration in your mind. then You honestly have no business owning a Camaro. or any car that holds timeless value.

How did people NOT know what was going to happen to the car they traded in? They put video, editorial pieces, pieces on shows like 60 Minutes. You'd have to have lived under a rock to not know what they were doing to the cars when you traded them in.

But I would HIGHLY suggest reading the rest of this thread, and catch up to what we've been saying about the outcome of these cars. I don't think you have read the whole thread.

[venom3300]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

The goal is to have hybrid cars. Cash for Clunkers is a failure anyway. Japan and Europe car makers benefitted from this moreso than Americans'.

very true

[venom3300]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

They don't have to represent YOU. Its not about YOU. YOU, YOU, YOU. All I ever hear you complain about is YOU. Never seen someone in my life so greedy and selfish. Think outward, instead of inward.

dude, you were telling ME how I should vote, run for office, not complain. so i was responding about what i was doing since YOU were talking about ME IN PARTICULAR.

im not just talking about whats good for me, im talking about what is good for the american tax payers.... last i checked that wasnt one person. also last i checked, destroying cars on the tax payers dime is a waste of tax payer money. but all u could do was ask about my taxes to try and corner me instead of seeing this is about taxpayer money not me personally.

furthermore, you do not know me well enough to say whether i am selfish and greedy or not. i am a Christian and do my best to put others before me. if i fail to do that, God will punish me, but its not for you or anyone else to decide. i believe that if a man doesnt work he doesnt eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). if a man cant hold a job and pay health insurance that is his problem. if he comes and ask me for ill help ill do what i can, but i dont want the government making me give, because that requires no giving of the heart. also if a man is wealthy, he will be judged on how his wealth is used. if he doesnt want health insurance that is his business. if he wants to use it to help others that is good and he will be rewarded for it, but the government making him do that does not mean he has a good heart about giving and takes away choice. choice being a God given right.

i know you hate it when i talk about religion but you personally attacked me, so dont expect me not to respond.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

dude, you were telling ME how I should vote, run for office, not complain. so i was responding about what i was doing since YOU were talking about ME IN PARTICULAR.

im not just talking about whats good for me, im talking about what is good for the american tax payers.... last i checked that wasnt one person. also last i checked, destroying cars on the tax payers dime is a waste of tax payer money. but all u could do was ask about my taxes to try and corner me instead of seeing this is about taxpayer money not me personally.

furthermore, you do not know me well enough to say whether i am selfish and greedy or not. i am a Christian and do my best to put others before me. if i fail to do that, God will punish me, but its not for you or anyone else to decide. i believe that if a man doesnt work he doesnt eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). if a man cant hold a job and pay health insurance that is his problem. if he comes and ask me for ill help ill do what i can, but i dont want the government making me give, because that requires no giving of the heart. also if a man is wealthy, he will be judged on how his wealth is used. if he doesnt want health insurance that is his business. if he wants to use it to help others that is good and he will be rewarded for it, but the government making him do that does not mean he has a good heart about giving and takes away choice. choice being a God given right.

i know you hate it when i talk about religion but you personally attacked me, so dont expect me not to respond.

I don't believe in any of it, hence I have no experience with Christianity. I simply can't open that can of worms again, that was a thread that went on for days, involved everyone, and was pretty entertaining for the most part. Do a search and you'll see where Im coming from.

Whatever you may think is a waste of taxpayers dime has inevitably helped even the domestic car makers recently, and it has been proven. Whether the C4C was the determining factor, or other reasons, the domestic auto makers are doing better than they were over a year ago. I tend to look at trends when I see such info. So if you can tell me what has made some of the domestics recover their sales, in conjunction of the recent events with Toyota, I'll be happy to hear. But so far, you haven't convinced me in the least that the C4C was a complete waste of taxpayers money. You've given me no proof, other than just saying "it was a waste". You tell me WHY it was a waste, and I'll come back with factual info saying it wasn't, and then you can keep telling me it was because you BELIEVE it was, and we'll keep going round and round, me with my facts, you with your heresay.

All you have done in just about every debate we have on this is tell everyone what the national debt is, what their share to pay is (regardless and oblivious to the procedures and the knowledge of how the national debt works), say everything was a waste of taxpayers money, then at some point Christianity gets involved and what the bible says.

As for whats good for the American taxpayers, I can be just as informative of my situation as anyone, and far more than you have. My life is unaffected by these government programs. I haven't lost any significant amount of money due to C4C. I haven't starved due to it, I haven't had a late rent payment because of it. I have always been able to spend my money on what I have needed OR wanted, without being affected by C4C. Too many people think they've spent significant amounts of money on these projects, and when it comes down to it, we've probably spend a few cents between the American population on some of these. Its an insignificant amount of money. Granted, you did work for it, but do you honestly keep track of every PENNY you have? Hell, I don't. I have pennies in my door of my car that are turning green. Im damn good with my money, but I can't keep track of every penny that comes in my grasp. FWIW, I find spare change on the ground all the time. So it can be difficult to say the American taxpayer is concerned with money when I can go to the store and roam the parking lot for spare change. Its hypocritical, plain and simple.

Its all principle over rationality. Principle doesn't feed people, rationality does.

[venom3300]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

I don't believe in any of it, hence I have no experience with Christianity. I simply can't open that can of worms again, that was a thread that went on for days, involved everyone, and was pretty entertaining for the most part. Do a search and you'll see where Im coming from.

Whatever you may think is a waste of taxpayers dime has inevitably helped even the domestic car makers recently, and it has been proven. Whether the C4C was the determining factor, or other reasons, the domestic auto makers are doing better than they were over a year ago. I tend to look at trends when I see such info. So if you can tell me what has made some of the domestics recover their sales, in conjunction of the recent events with Toyota, I'll be happy to hear. But so far, you haven't convinced me in the least that the C4C was a complete waste of taxpayers money. You've given me no proof, other than just saying "it was a waste". You tell me WHY it was a waste, and I'll come back with factual info saying it wasn't, and then you can keep telling me it was because you BELIEVE it was, and we'll keep going round and round, me with my facts, you with your heresay.

All you have done in just about every debate we have on this is tell everyone what the national debt is, what their share to pay is (regardless and oblivious to the procedures and the knowledge of how the national debt works), say everything was a waste of taxpayers money, then at some point Christianity gets involved and what the bible says.

As for whats good for the American taxpayers, I can be just as informative of my situation as anyone, and far more than you have. My life is unaffected by these government programs. I haven't lost any significant amount of money due to C4C. I haven't starved due to it, I haven't had a late rent payment because of it. I have always been able to spend my money on what I have needed OR wanted, without being affected by C4C. Too many people think they've spent significant amounts of money on these projects, and when it comes down to it, we've probably spend a few cents between the American population on some of these. Its an insignificant amount of money. Granted, you did work for it, but do you honestly keep track of every PENNY you have? Hell, I don't. I have pennies in my door of my car that are turning green. Im damn good with my money, but I can't keep track of every penny that comes in my grasp. FWIW, I find spare change on the ground all the time. So it can be difficult to say the American taxpayer is concerned with money when I can go to the store and roam the parking lot for spare change. Its hypocritical, plain and simple.

Its all principle over rationality. Principle doesn't feed people, rationality does.

rationality might help someone out of a tight spot, but principle holds a nation together..... thus law were established rather than leaving things up to rational thought.

as for proof.... as i have said, weather the auto makers make it or not is none of the governments concern. our economy was not set up on the government helping out the private sector and that is how it was intended. companies fail. you cant go around bailing out and giving incentive programs (C4C) to every company that is going under.

if you do not understand the Bible you cant possible understand my view. Gods word is law, they are not separate. it comes before mans law. which reminds me of Titus 3:9- dont get in pointless arguments. and 2 timothy 2:16- avoid worldly chatter..... which is what i hear from you

so at that i am done here. think what you want of me i couldnt care less. if we agree to disagree so be it, you vote for what you want and ill vote for what i want.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

our economy was not set up on the government helping out the private sector and that is how it was intended.

Wrong, our government was meant to be changed when nessecary, according to publics needs or wants at the time. Hence the use of amendments, and the three branches of our federal government.

companies fail. you cant go around bailing out and giving incentive programs (C4C) to every company that is going under.

True, you can't. But you also can't let a big contributor of our GDP just die off. You're the biggest opponent to the national debt getting bigger, but you want to kill off companies that contribute their weight in taxes and tariffs, and keep out GDP up. You're a hypocrite. The LAST thing this country needs to lose is MORE manufacturing and industrial business. And you're all for it, all while complaining about the national debt, unaware that one contributes into the other. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

if you do not understand the Bible you cant possible understand my view. Gods word is law, they are not separate. it comes before mans law. which reminds me of Titus 3:9- dont get in pointless arguments. and 2 timothy 2:16- avoid worldly chatter..... which is what i hear from you

You've been in this debate the whole time with me, post for post, then you drag that into it? Take some of your own advice for ONCE and stop being a hypocrite. You do nothing but live a life of double standards.

[Watazz]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

That is a F****** disgrace. Especially since this cash for clunkers BS hurt the economy more than helping.

[Heywood]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

I read this whole thread.... uggh... I think a lot of people are missing the point of C4C. Yeah the execution could have been better but the intention was to lessen our overall carbon footprint by taking old cars- with bad gas mileage- off the road and replacing them with newer cars- with better gas mileage. That said, how can anyone sit there and complain about 2 points: 1) the engine could have been used by someone else, and 2) C4C was a failure. Eh? C4C would have had no point if the engine wasn't destroyed! Did you really need a youtube video to figure out that classic cars would be disabled and parted out? If those videos made you upset then obviously you didn't spend more than 10 seconds thinking about what Cash-4-Clunkers was all about when the idea was first proposed many months ago. I don't recall there being any clause in C4C that excluded classic muscle cars, so I don't see how these videos surprise anyone. After all, C4C targeted these kinds of cars!

I could go on, literally, forever talking about the auto industry, the environment, and our government, and how the 3 take it up the wazoo from each other day in and day out. I would probably start with how my mom's '93 Ford Aerostar mini-van gets 27 mpg highway (Hand to god. I've gone on four 400-mile trips in that POS and I've run the math myself) and today, in 2010, Chevy commercials brag about getting 33 mpg in a 4-door sedan. WHOOP-DE-DOO. Keep in mind I'm comparing a car from 1993 to a car in 2010. Yeah that's the auto industry, but let's compare that to the electronics industry: In the same amount of time, we've condensed 50 lbs of cassette tapes into a flash drive. We've condensed a 40lb desktop PC into a handheld PDA. We've put gigantic lasers on airplanes that can shoot down missiles. We've put cell phones in the hands of dang near every high schooler in the country. We've got remote controlled aircraft armed with hellfire missiles.

I see I've gone off on a bit of a tangent. Point is, we are screwing the environment over with old technology. If the auto industry had progressed as fluidly as the electronics industry has, we'd all be driving 2000 hp electric smart-cars that get 500 miles per charge. With this in mind, maybe we can all better understand why the Cash-4-Clunkers program ever existed (even if you don't agree with it): We're just trying to play CATCH-UP to protect the very air we breathe.

Me, personally? I'd rather see that vette clunker (and millions of other clunkers) scrapped so that future generations still have an atmosphere to breathe.

[bigairboarder44]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

So why are you driving an f-body if you're so concerned about the environment???

[venom3300]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

So why are you driving an f-body if you're so concerned about the environment???

[Heywood]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

So why are you driving an f-body if you're so concerned about the environment???

"So concerned"? You make it sound like actually giving a crap is the same as being a full-blown tree-hugging hippie. Believe it or not there is a middle ground (I think they call them "moderates".... :omg:)

You might as well be asking me "Why do I eat meat if I'm so concerned about the treatment of animals?" Both questions have pretty much the same answer I'll leave you to figure out.

I assume you're amused because his comment is a logical fallacy? Specifically, ad hominem. The example Wikipedia gives is:

Person 1 makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person 1
Therefore claim X is false

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

[bigairboarder44]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

Actually I am a moderate also. It just sounded like you were super concerned about it. I won't get into it because I'll probably lose any fight I pick, however I do believe that f-bodies get decent mileage for what they are.

[venom3300]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

"
I assume you're amused because his comment is a logical fallacy? Specifically, ad hominem. The example Wikipedia gives is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

now he is siting wikipedia bowhahahaha

you own a car that gets 19 city mpg.... dont argue saving the planet, because ur not doing ur part

[KJZ28]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

i believe that if a man doesnt work he doesnt eat (2 Thessalonians 3:10). if a man cant hold a job and pay health insurance that is his problem. if he comes and ask me for ill help ill do what i can, but i dont want the government making me give, because that requires no giving of the heart. also if a man is wealthy, he will be judged on how his wealth is used. if he doesnt want health insurance that is his business. if he wants to use it to help others that is good and he will be rewarded for it, but the government making him do that does not mean he has a good heart about giving and takes away choice. choice being a God given right.

Its nice to see another Christian aboard! :banana: God Bless!

C4C=FAILURE (local dealer owner said most of the money went overseas to Japanese companies)

Wrong, our government was meant to be changed when nessecary, according to publics needs or wants at the time. Hence the use of amendments, and the three branches of our federal government.

While I agree the Founders left room for elasticity, its because they realized technology changes rapidly and calls for new laws surrounding them, for instance they were well versed on history and saw that firearms were changing the way of the world and knew some other revolutionary invention could do the same.

The government getting involved in private sector business is one of the last things the founders would have ever wanted, if you read the writings of the founders they wanted to ensure that the government stayed out of private lives and business. Because they saw how that leads to tyranny example back then was the link between England and the East Indian trading Company.

[Bandit127]

Re: TERRIBLE! cash for clunker. (remembering how stupid it was) video. (must) watch

Almost ALL of the C4C 'events' around here, ended with crushing the entire car. I mean, 90%+.

Even so, think of what it does to the repair shops. Right now, alot of people don't HAVE MONEY TO BUY A NEW CAR. So they repair their old car, which is the smart thing to do at this time. The problem with C4C is that in the very least, it destroys the engine. Which is the number one reason why people bring their cars into a shop, because at this moment, or more or less the past 5 years, people have been much more concerned being able to get to work and make paychecks than having a rust-free panel here and there.

Without good, used engines, people have to unnecessarily pay more for parts. Which just sucks when you just can't buy a new car.

In my opinion, they should have done like the new home owners, just give them 4,500 or so (just a random number!) off a new car purchase, instead of effectively make repair parts scarce.