really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

[camaroman1181]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

And I will ask you as I ask every republican....How do you bring down health care costs? Wanna hear the funny thing, EVERY republican stands there with a goofy look on their face.

So I ask, how do you bring down costs???

let me first say, i'm by no means an expert, nor do i have any answers that I can guarantee will work. take the following, long, rambling message as it is.. as opinion..

how do you keep health care costs down? its a 2 step system.

1. Free market. Ever call a doctor's office and ask for a quote on an appointment or a procedure? Probably not, but if you have, they probably told you they cannot do that until after they see you. Compare that to places such as garages, who perform work that cannot always be accounted for, will at least offer an upfront quote, with conditions to change based on needs (and if they don't, you can choose to go to the garage that will). Knowing health care costs, allows us as consumers to make a decision on who we would like to treat us. If you go with a bargain price, you may be getting bargain service, but at least you know up front, and you made that decision of your own accord. Conversely, there will also be premium services, at premium prices. But the beauty is you get to choose. Would this require a radical restructuring of the current system, complete with computerized records that would allow you to go from one doctor to the next easily? yes, and this is not something that we could initiate effectively, immediately. But that does not mean we cannot work towards it. (i'm over-simplifying this, but i hope i at least get my basic idea across.)

2. Tort Reform - There is no reason that we have the amount of needless litigation in this country as we do. Why do we have so many lawyers, and legal disclaimers? Shoot, I can't rent a movie without seeing half the receipt print out in legalese. (if you want to know how messed up this system is, research class action suits. there are lawyers filing claims on issues, that no one is even arguing about, but still claiming that there is victims. somehow, these kind of things happen, settlements are issued, and the only one ever seeing payment is the lawyers being reimbursed for their time).

Here's another radical idea. How many times in the past year or two, when all this healthcare reform has been hot and heavy, has someone gone out and said "next, we need to fix this broken home insurance business!!!" It hasn't happened. Why? Homes are extremely expensive, and instances covered under home policies often can costs just as much as a lot of medical procedures. I believe it is because home insurance is catastrophic coverage only. If your house burns down, they pay you for your lose. Conversely, a non catastrophe, (say, you put a golf ball through a window) is on you to pay for. You pay for the small stuff, and they cover the catastrophes that are almost impossible to account for. Why can't health insurance be this way too? Why do I or my employer, need to pay hundreds of dollars a month, just so i can go to the doctor over a cold, and get a useless drug that only masks the symptoms, but does nothing for a cold/virus, and only pay a trivial amount. Why isn't there an option, that covers things like surgeries, and catastrophes (such as accidents and major illnesses like cancer), but leaves it up to us to pay for those random doctors visits in full. Throw in the free market, and you wouldn't pay current full price for those visits either. I mean, doctors are licensed and approved by medical boards, as being competent to practice. Even a semi competent doctor should be able to write a prescription to mask cold symptoms. (I wont get into how we are over medicated as a country, and how that is also driving up prices for everyone... that's an argument that would be compatible to every soccer mom driving SUV's and then complaining about $4 a gallon gas... oh wait.. )

i honestly do not think that creating more levels of government ever make things better. Do I know all the details of this new law, no. Am I going to research them? nope. But even the face value of what has been proposed, seems to add more government, and more complexity to this situation. And in almost every case out there, a more complex situation is almost always not the ideal situation. The simple solution is open up pricing (free market), stop letting a$$hole laywers sue everyone (tort reform), and then look at the fundamental principals of why health insurance covers what it does. Again, let the free market sort out pricing, not some out of touch lawmaker, who is living hundreds or thousand miles away from you, and most likely, hasn't worked an actual blue color or service job in his life.

There's also the angle of how I do not think we can afford this. We as a nation, essentially already have our credit cards maxed, and this to me feels like opening another account, just to buy that new motorcycle. Not saying that the new motorcycle could be useful, just saying that there are probably other priorities ahead of it. But this would be another lengthy rant.

Again, i have radical views and i accept that. I also accept that anyone else has the freedom to think whatever they choose, even if that menas they think i'm an idiot.

one last thing before I go.... where in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or any other document that framed our great nation... where does it say "we the government, guarantee you as citizens, a good and happy life." It doesnt say that, or anything like it. What it basically says is, we all have freedom to do as we please, without anyone interfering us, as long as we are not doing anything illegal. With freedom, comes the chance that we can do everything right, and still fail, and its up to us to pick up the pieces and move on. When the government starts holding our hands and regulation the individual lives of private citizens (beyond laws and taxes) and starts demanding we do certain things (you will buy this or else! aka, healthcare) we lose a little piece of that freedom. And I for one, do not think that is OK.

[vanbibber]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

i like that last part sir. and i think that sums up the majority of americans who are opposed to this pretty well.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

1. I agree with Tort reform. IMO, I think the states should create a medical malpractice board, in charge of validating a person's malpractice claim. But tort reform in general is a good idea.

2. Free market. It doesn't exist. Its a foolish concept. Pure capitalism does nothing but cloak a monopoly or a coalition in the long run. OPEC is a good example. Everyone I know that says something about free market doesn't look down the road when it comes to it. There are only two possible solutions with a free market. One would be becoming so big that you monopolize an area of goods and services, killing local economies. Walmart in small towns is a prime example of when free market capitalism is allowed to run rampant and unchecked. I can't think of any small farm towns in northern Indiana that have a Walmart and a healthy local retail economy. They've collapsed from the sheer size of such a monopoly, making these towns then dependent on the giant chain store for everything. The second scenario is what OPEC has become, a coalition of oil suppliers and refiners that sit down a set a price to a product, in this case, oil. The same can be applied to any good and service. But because our government isn't strong enough to challenge OPEC, all we see is rising crude prices. Both scenarios are walking, breathing proof of the illusion of free market, and its quit obvious if you look.

The only other alternative, especially in this country, is to elect our government officials to harnass and sustain rampant corporate manipulation of our economy. We as the people have the choice, if you still allow these larger corporations to control more and more of our destiny thru free market, you will soon be voting for whoever they place on the table. Its an undeniable inevitability, and it can't be argued.

[T-Mill]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

When I personally say free-market, I do NOT mean totally free, it's unrealistic for many reasons... but what I usually mean is a free-er market... totally free of coercion... There definitely need to be regulations in our economy, you can't have people selling kiddy-porn or people putting false information on food labels... as well as regulations to prevent things like price-gouging and insider-trading etc... but what the economy doesn't need is to be coerced by the government into practices that it doesn't wish to participate... Most of the time when I say this people just say, "well laws are a form of coercion" but that's not what I'm talking about... I'm not talking about preventing people from doing things that are illegal, I'm talking about forcing a company or individual to do something, and thus making it illegal for them not to... ie- buying/providing health insurance...

So maybe I speak for myself when I talk about free markets, but I am a Conservative, not a libertarian... I believe that government does have a role, just not one as big as what it has become...