really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

[Mighty Thor]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

And I will ask you as I ask every republican....How do you bring down health care costs? Wanna hear the funny thing, EVERY republican stands there with a goofy look on their face.

So I ask, how do you bring down costs???

Well, I'm neither a Republican nor Democrat nor any other parties. But the cost is indeed out of control you have to admit that and it's not stopping. It's an unstoppable juggernaut and this healthcare bill will not do it.

I have my own opinion and formula on how to bring this cost down, but I don't want to open another can of worm here.

[nimrod.sixty9]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

Your justifing costs?! HA malpractice LOL

Last time I was in the ER I was told 'this is whats wrong with you, but we dont know why. go see someone else.' $1200

Or how about the Tahnksgiving my mother lost her finger! All they did for her was TOSS her a towel (after screaming for help and almost passing out from all the blood she lost) and told her it was too late to reattach her finger 'go somewhere else' $800

Then she went somewhere else, this is two hours later, and they asked wheres the finger was. We find out they could reattach it, even though 2 hours earlier was too late. $3,400



Im with Thor. We pay the most money for the worst health care. Fix the real problem first!

[Mogobs30th]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

Well, I'm neither a Republican nor Democrat nor any other parties. But the cost is indeed out of control you have to admit that and it's not stopping. It's an unstoppable juggernaut and this healthcare bill will not do it.

I have my own opinion and formula on how to bring this cost down, but I don't want to open another can of worm here.

Might as well.

Are the costs out of control, sure, but you're not going to bring them down without pissing the neo-conservatives off about free market.

[T-Mill]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

For the worst healthcare? come on now... prominent people from all over the world come HERE... and you think emergency rooms are bad now? just wait until there's 30 million more people in them and fewer doctors...

[T-Mill]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

I wasn't justifying the costs, I was just explaining that greedy insurance companies aren't the only culprit as the left would have you believe...

[T-Mill]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

an MRI machine can cost around $2,000,000 and have only become popular in hospitals in the past 20 years... it used to be, you had cancer... you died... now you can find the cancer with an MRI, PET scanner, or CT scan, and treat it with drugs that have been developed sometimes just in the last few years... that techno costs money and the consumer pays for it, simple as that...

I just don't think people realize how much it costs to develop technologies like this, or to develop pharmaceuticals... people will have you believe that these companies are the enemy because they make money off of sick people... but the truth is they make money by healing people, which seems fairly noble to me...

[nimrod.sixty9]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

For the worst healthcare? come on now... prominent people from all over the world come HERE... and you think emergency rooms are bad now? just wait until there's 30 million more people in them and fewer doctors...

I would have to say one of the worst in the devoloped world, yes.

Exaclty, it will get much worse! Just think of all the money we will spend now that everyone can go in just for a tummy ache or the common cold. Think how the ER will just pass you though just like everyone else, because they will get so much BS and assume you have the same just to move you on. Why would they care? They will still get paid the same.

For example, and I cant believe I forgot to post this one. We take my brother to the ER. They told us to go home, 'he has a stomach ache'. Should I add that was $300.

Well we instead took him almost 100 miles away to another hospital. After 'exploritory surgery' they found the issue and took care of it. That stomach ache turned out to be a twisted intestine! Doctors said had it been another hour, he would have been dead! And also stated that he was minutes from eating trough a bag (attached to his gut) the rest of his life. He was 4 years old...

[nimrod.sixty9]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

I wasn't justifying the costs, I was just explaining that greedy insurance companies aren't the only culprit as the left would have you believe...

Exactly, Im 100% with you on that. Actually Im not blaming them at all. They do still have to make money. To do that they have to raise costs because of the HC costs.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

So my 'question' has been out there for about 20 minutes, and as I completely expected, no one has been able to answer the question. So I'll ask again...

HOW DO YOU BRING DOWN THE COSTS OF HEALTHCARE??

[Mogobs30th]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

I sent you an e-mail a long time ago with plenty of permanent, effective, long term solutions to lower health care costs... none of which are included in the current bill...

The costs of HEALTHCARE, or the cost of the insurance? If you have that email, send it again, or post here.

[nimrod.sixty9]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

an MRI machine can cost around $2,000,000 and have only become popular in hospitals in the past 20 years... it used to be, you had cancer... you died... now you can find the cancer with an MRI, PET scanner, or CT scan, and treat it with drugs that have been developed sometimes just in the last few years... that techno costs money and the consumer pays for it, simple as that...

I just don't think people realize how much it costs to develop technologies like this, or to develop pharmaceuticals... people will have you believe that these companies are the enemy because they make money off of sick people... but the truth is they make money by healing people, which seems fairly noble to me...

Very good point. And deff justified. But as you see in my examples, none applied to this technology. It doesnt cost $200 for a towel $600 for a temporary bandage. It doesnt cost $95 for me to borrow a gown they made me wear while they dont help me.

[Mighty Thor]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

Might as well.

Are the costs out of control, sure, but you're not going to bring them down without pissing the neo-conservatives off about free market.

Wes, don't ever concern yourself who and which party you piss off. Either one will always be piss at each other. That's why it's disgusting how each of them play each other off.

There was like a health care rally here in my area, not too far from where I live actually, and someone fired a gun and destroyed a Rep. property. When the Rep. ask why they were piss at him instead of the Dem., the man who was arrested for doing this said, "You didn't do enough."

Calif. is the most liberal state there is and right now 1 out of 5 working Californians is unemployed. 5 major hospitals closed down at 50 miles radius from me because people can't afford to pay their coverage. These are the illegals, uninsured, and unemployed who brought these hospitals down. Why because everything here in Calif. expensive compare to any other states, that includes healthcare cost. The starting salary for a Registered Nurse is 65K and Nurses with a BS degree can start at 85K. My aunt who had been a nurse for 30 years makes 150-160k and she's only 2nd to being a lead nurse. Heck a janitor can make 40k a year here.

I can't even tell you how much the doctors here are getting paid. But I can tell you that my wife's cardiologist makes over 600k a year. Her surgeon doctor from UCLA one of the top surgeon in the world makes over a mil.

So these cost to pay them will be reflective on how much you have to pay your hospital bill. Just last year alone they gave themselves 14% pay increase and my insurance bill went from $278 to $335 a month. My co-pay went from $10 to $25. Nobody is talking about this.

[Mighty Thor]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

an MRI machine can cost around $2,000,000 and have only become popular in hospitals in the past 20 years... it used to be, you had cancer... you died... now you can find the cancer with an MRI, PET scanner, or CT scan, and treat it with drugs that have been developed sometimes just in the last few years... that techno costs money and the consumer pays for it, simple as that...

I just don't think people realize how much it costs to develop technologies like this, or to develop pharmaceuticals... people will have you believe that these companies are the enemy because they make money off of sick people... but the truth is they make money by healing people, which seems fairly noble to me...

You have to ask yourself these questions. Why is it that they sell those medical equipment at other countries cheaply and not here? Why is it that pharmaceuticals are cheap in other countries and not here?

--------------------
You'll probably might say that they are more regulated here than anywhere else. If that is the case then we need to look into this regulation. I mean food is regulated here too compare to other countries, but it never cost us that much.

Pfizer has been looked at before. They do sell their medications cheap at other countries, but not here.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

Although you make a decent point Edgar, I have a difficult time believing that labor costs of doctors, nurses, staff are the culprit here. If that was the case, prescription medications would be cheaper, simply because you don't involve these types of people in the manufacturing atmosphere as you do in a hospital atmosphere. Granted, there are physicists, some doctors, other medical staff within a pharmecutical company, but they aren't getting paid anymore than some of the engineers for a automaker. So, with that being the case, why are prescription meds unholy expensive without insurance?

And again, this isnt a solution to bringing down healthcare costs. Cutting pay will not do it, it would still be out of control.

And T-mill, there is NO WAY that medical research and development is what is solely putting medical costs thru the roof. Just as nimrod pointed out, if an MRI machine cost 2 million dollars, and from my own personal experience, an MRI costs around $2500 to perform, then they would have had the damn thing payed off in as little as 800 uses, which isn't alot for most urban hospitals. Thats a little under 2 a day. And even if it isn't used to that capacity, it doesn't take long to pay off, few years. So where does the rest of the cost go?

[T-Mill]

Re: really? not one thread about the health care bill yet?

I don't have that e-mail but I'll post what I can from memory

1. Tort reform... as I said earlier, the technology is expensive... and while I agree with nimrod that doctor's shouldn't be complacent, the are also forced to be over-cautious to protect themselves from being sued, and they order unnecessary scans and X-rays and procedures that they don't actually think is necessary, but they do just in case something else comes up they can't be sued... malpractice insurance for doctors is EXTREMELY expensive and when a producer (the doctor/hospital) pays more, the consumer pays more...

2. Interstate commerce... now before you say that this will curb insurance costs not healthcare costs think of it this way... not only will there be more competition among insurance companies which will lower the cost for the consumer, but the healthcare providers are also reliant on the profit of the insurance companies. If insurance companies (via competition) must become more efficient in their practices it will translate to more responsibility by the provider and consumer as well... (this will have a much greater effect on the cost of insurance than the cost of care, but it I believe it would effect both)

3. Portability of Insurance and changing from the current opt-out practice of employee provided healthcare plans to opt-in... Keep people who have insurance on it, and get more people, who are eligible, to obtain insurance... if people who want insurance, or want to keep insurance when they change jobs are able to keep it, they will be less likely to go to the emergency room for a headache or a cold, they'll schedule a doctor's appt knowing that their insurance will pay for it. Most people think that the costs of the people who go to the emergency room but can't pay, go to the government, but much, most or even all of it is often absorbed by the hospital. Which raises the costs for the paying consumer

4. Encourage Catastrophic coverage... In another comparison to auto insurance: Auto insurance doesn't pay to replace your brakes, or have your oil changed, or other regular maintenance. Make it easier for insurance companies to provide catastrophic coverage which would cost much much much less than comprehensive coverage. If you have a heart attack, you're covered. If you develop cancer, you're covered. If you get the flu, you're not. and then just like with cars, you could buy supplemental coverage to cover doctor visits and non-refillable prescriptions. If the insurance provider is more efficient, they will pay closer to what the healthcare provider is asking for the service which will lower the asking price. Hospitals rarely receive what they charge for their service, especially from medicare and medicaid. This would also prevent people from getting very sick and spending time in a hospital without any way to pay for it, bc the insurance will pay...

5. Offer tax savings for people who aren't part of employer insurance, but buy insurance on their own... Currently (before this bill was passed, I don't know if it addressed it or not) people who buy their own insurance are basically taxed twice... they pay taxes when they buy insurance and they pay again if they have a HSA which many people who buy their own insurance do. This one will mainly lower cost of insurance not care...