Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

[crazygrrrl]

I live in Oakland, CA and all hell is breaking loose. There are protests blocking many streets in Oakland, traffic is a nightmare, and I wouldn't be too surprised if there are riots tonight.

Here's the reason: On 1/1/09, Oscar Grant, an unarmed black man, was murdered by Johannes Mehserle, a white BART cop (BART stands for Bay Area Rapid Transit, kind of like a subway train system). There were lots of witnesses and plenty of cell phone videos taken of the actual crime, but the jury in Los Angeles delivered a verdict today of "involuntary manslaughter" instead of 2nd degree murder.

Here's what I don't get: the guy was face-down on the floor with his hands behind his back. He was being held down by 2 other cops (one had his knee on the back of Oscar's neck) while a 3rd cop (Mehserle) got up and shot Oscar point blank in the back. How can this not be cold-blooded murder???

Videos of this can be seen on youtube. Here's one link from many that are available:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKy-WSZMklc

So, what do you guys think? Murder or manslaughter?

[vanbibber]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

he's already been judged by his peers, i feel no need to.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

I can see this falling under a 3rd degree murder charge, but that would depend on California law (and California DOES HAVE a 3rd degree murder statute). This isnt 1st degree or even 2nd degree though. Its not a premeditated act, its not particularly gruesome, it wasn't really planned. It was more of an accident, but one that could have been EASILY avoided.

What was he sentenced to? Best I can see is that he's going to go away for a while, 10+ years....

[Heywood]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

he's already been judged by his peers, i feel no need to.

hmm good point...

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

he's already been judged by his peers, i feel no need to.

hmm good point...

Its not as if your judgement is really going to affect this man, this victim, or the city of Oakland. Might as well throw and opinion out there....

holy jesus....:twak:

[Heywood]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Holy Jesus would have me reserve my judgment for I am no man to judge :D

[T-Mill]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

The only thing I can think is that the cop thought that he was drawing his tazer, not his gun... there would be no reason for a cop to shoot someone in that position let alone even draw his weapon... you can see the cop in the second cell phone video kind of put his hands over his head right after you hear the shot like, "What the hell did I just do?"

assuming this was the case, then the verdict is appropriate, since he didn't intend to do what he did, it's involuntary... and since his actions resulted in the man's death, it's manslaughter...

edit: after watching it again, I'm convinced, bc right before the shot you see the other cops back off so they don't get shocked by the tazer

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

I've been hearing about this too in S. Calif. But doing trail in L.A. is just as insane...remember Rodney King?

I question this too myself. I know the guy was bad mouthing, loud, and obnoxious, but there really is no reason to shoot him. Besides, if he was going to be tazed the other 2 officers would have to be clear from him.

[sac2165]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

It looked like a tragic accident...

[ssms5411]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

I can see this falling under a 3rd degree murder charge, but that would depend on California law (and California DOES HAVE a 3rd degree murder statute). This isnt 1st degree or even 2nd degree though. Its not a premeditated act, its not particularly gruesome, it wasn't really planned. It was more of an accident, but one that could have been EASILY avoided.

What was he sentenced to? Best I can see is that he's going to go away for a while, 10+ years....

X2 it was a accident, I have seen cops accidently discharge a round usually when they have their gun out and use the radio becuase they squeeze to talk and they forget they have their finger on the trigger on the other hand and its proven to have a involuntary twitch and fire off rounds , normally this is just at the ground. It wasn't planned and the Officer messed up by pulling his fire arm and before getting it back in he was full of adrinaline and fired off a round , theres been times where cops have shot other cops but you won't here about those becuase they are filled under drive by shottong or sniper at a Police Offficer if they get leaked out. That is involuntary manslaughter and it is traggic and the family will get their millions from the Police Dept. for the Offficers actions and the Officer will be jailed seperated for his whole sentence in P/C which I think should be 4-7 years , max I think is 15 years , AZ its 85% time served and 15% probation. Don't know about CA. With firearms first rule keep your finger along the slide unless ready to fire the gun. Only time your finger is on the trigger is when you are going to fire a shot. Expect a riot someone needs a big T.V. out there and this will be a excuss to go get it. LOL

[vanbibber]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Its not as if your judgement is really going to affect this man, this victim, or the city of Oakland. Might as well throw and opinion out there....

holy jesus....:twak:

unless its blatantly obvious that its a abuse of power, ill never judge what any police officer does. im not in their shoes (yet) to say whats running thru the guys head when something like that is going on. clearly looks like an accident.

now if you want to talk about america's west coast A-hole known as oakland i can go on for days lol. i have yet to find any reason for the city to exist.

[T-Mill]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Besides, if he was going to be tazed the other 2 officers would have to be clear from him.

In the vid the other officers back away from him right before the guy shoots... Which is why I think the cop drew his gun on accident, thinking he was drawing his tazer...

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

unless its blatantly obvious that its a abuse of power, ill never judge what any police officer does.

Thats pretty naive. I question everyone, all the time. Police, military, government, everyone. I never make the assumption as to think they are always doing the right thing.

Spend some time in Chicago, you'll understand what Im talking about. Everyone has a price, and everyone is capable of anything. Im not so naive as to not question or judge.

[Heywood]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

Like vanbibber said, it's impossible to know exactly what was going through that cop's head when he pulled the trigger. The closest anyone got to finding out was during that trial, and we weren't there. I think it's more naive to judge him based on a couple news articles and blurry videos and pretend to come up with a verdict more appropriate than that settled upon in court.

Mogobs I don't think you and I will ever agree on anything, ever. Ever.

[vanbibber]

Re: Murder or involuntary manslaughter? What do you think?

i think hell froze over, you and i just agreed on something for the first time