Prop 8 poll

[ssms5411]

Re: Prop 8 poll

I just think since its up to a vote , like the rest of the U.S. laws that have been passed before, then if it gets passed it gets past, if not then wait until next year, but let the people decide , if the majority doesn't think its right then thats the way it is. Personally I think its wrong but thats just my opinion, because I do believe in the Bible, but I don't go to church every week its just what I believe in. I also believe that one doesn't need to go to church every week to believe in God, they can pratice it in their own home and community.

[T-Mill]

Re: Prop 8 poll

I just think since its up to a vote , like the rest of the U.S. laws that have been passed before, then if it gets passed it gets past, if not then wait until next year, but let the people decide , if the majority doesn't think its right then thats the way it is. Personally I think its wrong but thats just my opinion, because I do believe in the Bible, but I don't go to church every week its just what I believe in. I also believe that one doesn't need to go to church every week to believe in God, they can pratice it in their own home and community.

Couldn't agree more...

evidence of fascism? The only tyranny that exists in this country is when the government, most agonizingly, appointed judges over-rule the will of the people.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

The only tyranny that exists in this country is when the government, most agonizingly, appointed judges over-rule the will of the people.

Tyranny is when a majority group can vote to take away the rights of a minority group for nothing more than because of their religous beliefs.
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[Heywood]

Re: Prop 8 poll

tyranny is when a majority group can vote to take away the rights of a minority group for nothing more than because of their religous beliefs.
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oh snap

[T-Mill]

Re: Prop 8 poll

You're buying into the premise that religious beliefs are the sole reasoning behind the decisions for voting... My reasoning is not based on religion and I am baffled as to why very smart people believe that the majority of this country is made up of a bunch of religious zealots.

Do you really think that 27 of the 48 people who voted here are bible thumping radicals? Thor and I have already said that our reasoning isn't based on our religious beliefs... Most people who I talk to who voted the way I did, believe that the purpose of marriage is to provide a stable home for children and that is why they vote against it.

Even if someone chooses to vote against gay marriage for the same reasoning as me, but gains this perspective from going to church, that doesn't mean that they are imposing their religious dogma onto others... you're reading too far into how they came to their reasoning instead of just focusing on the reasoning itself. People who claim that they don't approve of gay marriage because they believe God hates gays are a much smaller minority than you're painting them out to be, and they are much fewer than a majority of voters in this country, especially in California.

[Heywood]

Re: Prop 8 poll

It's hard to distinguish a radical Christian from a non-radical Christian when they both read and follow the same book.

OH SNAP I SAID IT (OH NO HE DIDN'T) OH YES I DID!

It used to be that slavery was OK by Christians, but times changed and so did their beliefs. What makes homosexuality so different? Times change, it's 2010 bro, so I find it easy to ignore anyone who bases their votes on the bible.

[T-Mill]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Tyranny is when a majority group can vote to take away the rights of a minority group for nothing more than because of their religous beliefs.
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and you have this backwards, when a minority rule exists it's tyranny when a majority rule exists it's democracy

[T-Mill]

Re: Prop 8 poll

It's hard to distinguish a radical Christian from a non-radical Christian when they both read and follow the same book.

OH SNAP I SAID IT (OH NO HE DIDN'T) OH YES I DID!

It used to be that slavery was OK by Christians, but times changed and so did their beliefs. What makes homosexuality so different? Times change, it's 2010 bro, so I find it easy to ignore anyone who bases their votes on the bible.

If you believe that because someone thinks differently than you that they are radical, then so-be-it... you're wrong, but believe what you want

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

and you have this backwards, when a minority rule exists it's tyranny when a majority rule exists it's democracy

Ah, but they don't rule. They only want the same rights as you. Same as when women wanted the same right to vote. Same as when blacks wanted to sit at the same lunch counter as whites.

To deny any person the right to marry the person they love is just wrong. And that brings me to the "it's un-natural". You all are just too hung-up on gay SEX. They want to get married because they love each other, just like anybody else.

I'll say it again - the state doesn't have the right to tell anybody who they can marry, and particularly if that law is based on religious prejudice.
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[T-Mill]

Re: Prop 8 poll

That's your opinion, but in a democracy, as I said, the majority wins and you represent the minority... who knows maybe one day I'll be on the wrong side of history here... but I doubt it

Why put it to a vote if you're just going to over-turn it if it doesn't go the way you want it to... It's TYRANNY, there's no other way to describe it. Take away the topic of discussion for a second and just think about whether or not it is tyranny when a vote is put to the people and the majority opinion is over-turned by a minority opinion... by the very definition that's tyranny...

It's not taking away anyone's right to marry, any man can marry any woman, and any woman can marry any man... You just have to meet that requirement. That's just like saying that fat girls should be allowed to work at Hooters, or that blind people should be allowed to drive cars, or that someone born with no legs should be allowed to join the military...

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

That's your opinion, but in a democracy, as I said, the majority wins and you represent the minority... who knows maybe one day I'll be on the wrong side of history here... but I doubt it

You're already on the wrong side - in favor of rights denial. If the majority always wins, then women would not have the right to vote, and segregation would still be legal.

Why put it to a vote if you're just going to over-turn it if it doesn't go the way you want it to... It's TYRANNY, there's no other way to describe it. Take away the topic of discussion for a second and just think about whether or not it is tyranny when a vote is put to the people and the majority opinion is over-turned by a minority opinion... by the very definition that's tyranny

It NEVER should have been voted on in the first place. You DON'T have votes to deny people rights.

It's not taking away anyone's right to marry, any man can marry any woman, and any woman can marry any man... You just have to meet that requirement.

Based on religious prejudice - no. You, I and the state have no right to make laws in this area. ALL marriage laws need to be revoked.
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[Mighty Thor]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Couldn't agree more...

evidence of fascism? The only tyranny that exists in this country is when the government, most agonizingly, appointed judges over-rule the will of the people.

Oh and the Judge was gay too. Funny thing is that the media never mentioned that, not till the natural news like the BCC mentioned it then it became clear that this was a personal agenda. This Judge let his rule be the end all of it.

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Prop 8 poll

You're already on the wrong side - in favor of rights denial. If the majority always wins, then women would not have the right to vote, and segregation would still be legal.

That was never on the ballot. It was a movement and the same for the segregation. The so-called gay movement is trying to redefine marriage. Like I said from the beginning that religion created the institution of marriage and it between man and woman. Now if this wasn't true then why not let polygamy, multiple marriage, marriage between blood relatives, marriage to underage minors be legal as well? I mean they are not hurting anybody and they are consentual.

Now you see what I mean. Why not call their union Civil or Social? Why do they have to redefine the meaning of marriage. To me that is wrong. This is indeed a moral issue.

It NEVER should have been voted on in the first place. You DON'T have votes to deny people rights.

That's because the state acted on their whim with their own personal agenda. The definition of marriage is very clear since the beginning and a small group of people try to distort that.

Based on religious prejudice - no. You, I and the state have no right to make laws in this area. ALL marriage laws need to be revoked.
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You're forgetting that many atheist, agnostics, scientist, and non-religious people are also against this too. Just that they are being overshadowed by religion.

[Heywood]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Constitution exists to protect the minority from the majority. Our government makes decisions without the majority consent every day, so get off your high horses about this tyranny bull**** like it's news to you. Take a social studies class at your community college and brush up on your knowledge of our government. This isn't a democracy, it's a democratic republic originally founded more as a republic than a democracy (how's that for pulling the "founding fathers" card?).

Here this page says it better than I can: http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html
Pay close attention particularly to the second quote of James Madison:

There are particular moments in public affairs when the people, stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career and to suspend the blow meditated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice and truth can regain their authority over the public mind

Took me 5 seconds to google that. Calling it a tyranny against our country to protect the rights of the minority is almost as stupid as calling our liberal president a fascist (because it doesn't make any ****ing sense). Just another example of people throwing around 10 dollar words of which they haven't a single clue what they mean but get other idiots to immediately panic and agree.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Prop 8 poll

That was never on the ballot. It was a movement and the same for the segregation. The so-called gay movement is trying to redefine marriage. Like I said from the beginning that religion created the institution of marriage and it between man and woman. Now if this wasn't true then why not let polygamy, multiple marriage, marriage between blood relatives, marriage to underage minors be legal as well? I mean they are not hurting anybody and they are consentual.

Now you see what I mean. Why not call their union Civil or Social? Why do they have to redefine the meaning of marriage. To me that is wrong. This is indeed a moral issue.

Damnit, how many times must I explain this? ITS NOT THE RELIGIOUS USE OF THE WORD THAT IS THE ISSUE. IT IS THE LEGAL REPRESENTATION OF IT. Any decent lawyer is going to fight the definition of "civil union" in comparison to "marriage" when it comes to the laws, especially when it comes down to assets, entitlements, things of that nature. If you call it civil union, then you're going to have issues with it on the other end when a lawyer representing a family of a deceased gay individual wanting to take the assets from the couples living half because of them not being "married" as the legal definition implies. The lawyer will easily say that it was a "civil union", which could exclude some of the laws of what would define as a "marriage".

That's because the state acted on their whim with their own personal agenda. The definition of marriage is very clear since the beginning and a small group of people try to distort that.

Exactly, but its definition in legal terms is where the problem lies, NOT THE RELIGIOUS definition. Most gays could care less of the religious ramifications, its the LEGAL ramifications that are of the concern.

You're forgetting that many atheist, agnostics, scientist, and non-religious people are also against this too. Just that they are being overshadowed by religion.

It can't be that overwhelmingly denied by the people, seeing as the poll in this very thread is fairly close, 27-21 against it. Thats just about a 55% to 45% in favor of being against it. Theres not a HUGE majority here.

BTW, our constitution was created to protect the minority from the majority. I learned this at an extremely early age. It should be common knowledge.