Prop 8 poll

[Bird_Of_Prey]

Re: Prop 8 poll

I just skipped to the last page.

It always cracks me up when people say the sanctity of marriage is ruined if gay people can marry..... in today's society people get divorced and remarried at the drop of a hat - that's sanctity of marriage?!?!?!?!

I'm all for everyone, man n woman - man and man - woman and woman, marrying.

This. I'm over this conservative religious bull****. Fix your own house before worrying about your neighbors.

[dmw319]

Re: Prop 8 poll

It always cracks me up when people say the sanctity of marriage is ruined if gay people can marry..... in today's society people get divorced and remarried at the drop of a hat - that's sanctity of marriage?!?!?!?!

I agree with you. It is equally if not more a cause that the meaning of marriage has been trampeled on that homosexuals pushing towards marriage. Most celebrity marriages don't even make it to a year. Pretty sad.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Believe me, I've already seen it and I've even paraphrase from it. There's a debate going on about that here.

A children's book on why I have Two Daddies were ban in elementary in 2005 and wouldn't you know it's back on school circulation in 2007. Like I said stuff like this is not getting media attention at all because the liberal medias which employs a lot of gays are protecting this movements agenda.

If you think I'm lying then I've just gone against my belief of the commandments.

Again, I don't think you're lying, I think you're grossly misinformed. There is no way on Earth a book pertaining to a "Gay men like having sex with pubescence boys and tasting their fresh ejaculated sperm" has ended up in large quantities and in schools. I don't care what media is, that would have been on FNN in a heartbeat, and I assure you, the liberal media does not control the "voice of the republican party". For me to even consider taking this seriously, I would have to know exactly what book your talking about and see references to the book, there couldn't be any paraphrasing with something THAT seriously screwed up. My guess is that you're either misinformed, or misinterpreting it in the first place. Something like this would have tripped red flags all the way to the FBI.

they dont get paid by the hour and it will keep them busy for a while
thats there job, rewriting laws and creating new laws as needed

Im not fond of backlogging the Senate, HoR, the whole judicial branch, and every state government for years just to rewrite THAT much law. Its impractical. You ***** and complain about tax dollars being needlessly spent, yet you advocate the work put into changing that much law. You're talking about years of legislation. Think more practically.

Consider this. Minors can get an abortion here Calif without the parents consent. Condoms are handed out in elementary schools here, again, without the parents consent. So do you think they need the parents consent to take them to gay pride parades?

Yes. Overwhelmingly yes. It becomes and insurance and liability issue if the child is off school property without the parents consent. Common sense. If there were children present for a gay pride parade, their parents consented to it, unless the parade route went thru the hallways. If condoms are handed out to students, they can CHOOSE not to take them. If a minor wants an abortion, it shouldn't be under a parents consent. Its not the parent bearing the child.

You're dodging my point. Point is, taking a child to church to brainwash them with "homosexuality is bad" is the same as taking a child to a gay pride parade and brainwashing them with "homosexuality is good." I'm not condoning either when it comes to how to raise a child, but I find it highly hypocritical to say brainwashing a child at church is OK but brainwashing at a gay rights gathering is unacceptable. Why would one treatment of a child be better than the other? Both are opinions based on beliefs, not cold hard facts.

Agree to an extent. Faith is belief, while our own constitution is fact. You don't have a choice to accept or not accept the constitution, either you do, or you can die/get deported/become a political refugee.

So yes, I suppose I am admitting that my defense of homosexuality is based on little more than a certain kind of "faith": a faith in the belief that all humans are created equal and entitled to certain unalienable rights, including but not limited to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Exactly. This is undeniable, unwavering, and uncompromising. THAT supercedes all religious belief at all times, without question. It basically comes down to a bunch of conservative Christian biblethumpers pairing with a few Atheistic individuals and DENYING the gay community their pursuit of happiness, which as far as I am concerned, is the most intolerable act that any side has done.

It always cracks me up when people say the sanctity of marriage is ruined if gay people can marry..... in today's society people get divorced and remarried at the drop of a hat - that's sanctity of marriage?!?!?!?!
I'm all for everyone, man n woman - man and man - woman and woman, marrying.

Agreed. Religion has done nothing to rear its face of hypocracy over and over and over. If a man and woman get married, fight, and have a divorce, its ok and forgivable, but a union of a woman/woman or a man/man is completely intolerable, even if the couples are together for the rest of their lives. Its confusing as hell to grasp.

I'm over this conservative religious bull****. Fix your own house before worrying about your neighbors.

Thank you.

Basically put, religion needs to keep its place and away from my government, and those who wish to deny another American their unalienable rights to life, liberty, and their pursuit of happiness because their "God" says so need to get the **** out of my country. This is the very core of our constitution, the core of the American life, and there are people that want to deny it because of religion. That is the worst atrocity here.

[Heywood]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Mogobs I think I love you. Wanna get married? :P

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Prop 8 poll

You're dodging my point. Point is, taking a child to church to brainwash them with "homosexuality is bad" is the same as taking a child to a gay pride parade and brainwashing them with "homosexuality is good." I'm not condoning either when it comes to how to raise a child, but I find it highly hypocritical to say brainwashing a child at church is OK but brainwashing at a gay rights gathering is unacceptable. Why would one treatment of a child be better than the other? Both are opinions based on beliefs, not cold hard facts.

I was raised to go to church and be respectful. Wouldn't you know it I ended up as an athiest anyway for over 7 years. A man making love to a man or woman to woman is plain WRONG and unnatural. It doesn't matter if you are religious, athiest or whatever. It doesn't matter what today's society is saying. This wouldn't have been accepted 10-15 years ago. But because of the liberal medias, hollywood actors, and what have you keeps bringing it and try to brainwash us that it's OK makes it OK now.

Let me ask you this. If a pedophile said it's ok to have sex with a minor as long as it is consentual and it recieved the backings of Hollywood Celebrities, Liberal Medias and enough people are teaching would you jump on that?

It's constitutional, he or she is pursuing Happiness.

So yes, I suppose I am admitting that my defense of homosexuality is based on little more than a certain kind of "faith": a faith in the belief that all humans are created equal and entitled to certain unalienable rights, including but not limited to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I also have faith that the good people of this country will continue to be accepting of all cultures and lifestyles, not limited only to lifestyles similar to their own. But you know, my faith is tested every day when I hear of unpatriotic Americans (of course never missing a chance to declare themselves "patriotic") attempting to deny other American citizens of the rights we too often take for granted; I lose hope in "the American spirit" when two consenting adults are denied the right to wed simply because overly conservative bigots find it "gross" or "unnatural", constantly citing passages from a book that condones child abuse, slavery, and killing those who have been raped. I lose faith when people try to pass a law that bans something that would in no way shape or form negatively affect their lives or the lives of others.

You see those of us who disagree are labelled BIGOTS. Just answer my question on pedophiles who is seeking out their own happiness.

One irrational defense of the law to ban same-sex marriage is "where is the line drawn?". I could use the same irrationality to ask the same question in opposition of said law: If gay marriage is banned, will interracial marriage be banned next? What about marriage between peoples of two religions or two cultures? Just who decides what a "traditional" marriage is? Even to this day there are people who look down upon such "untraditional" marriages, but I'll be damned if laws will be put in place to prevent them.

Interracial marriage is different. They are still both male and female which is natural and can procreate another being and effectively raised them with a father figure who represent masculinity and a mother figure who represent femininity. YOU CAN"T have that with a homosexual marriage.

BTW.. I am mix myself and my wife is from a hispanic race. If God willing we have children we would be great parents.

I don't have a problem with them having a Civil or Social Union and getting the same benefit. But to call it Marriage is a no no. Definition of marriage is between a man and a woman in order to procreate and rear children and to give support. Religion created this title and no one has the authority to change its meaning.

[adrummer02L78]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Religion created this title and no one has the authority to change its meaning.[/QUOTE]
agreed. The whole idea of the institution of marriage is from religion, and is integrally connected to it. Outside of a religious ceremony it is called a "civil contract" not a marriage.

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Again, I don't think you're lying, I think you're grossly misinformed. There is no way on Earth a book pertaining to a "Gay men like having sex with pubescence boys and tasting their fresh ejaculated sperm" has ended up in large quantities and in schools. I don't care what media is, that would have been on FNN in a heartbeat, and I assure you, the liberal media does not control the "voice of the republican party". For me to even consider taking this seriously, I would have to know exactly what book your talking about and see references to the book, there couldn't be any paraphrasing with something THAT seriously screwed up. My guess is that you're either misinformed, or misinterpreting it in the first place. Something like this would have tripped red flags all the way to the FBI.

It's written in poetry/prose. I agree with you.

Faith is belief, while our own constitution is fact. You don't have a choice to accept or not accept the constitution, either you do, or you can die/get deported/become a political refugee.

The Constitution has been manipulated many times in its young history. Our Founding Fathers never in their knowledge and wisdom ever imagine anything like this.

Agreed. Religion has done nothing to rear its face of hypocracy over and over and over. If a man and woman get married, fight, and have a divorce, its ok and forgivable, but a union of a woman/woman or a man/man is completely intolerable, even if the couples are together for the rest of their lives. Its confusing as hell to grasp.

If religion was winning in every aspect in this country this country would be a lot different. Problem is religion has been brushed aside way too many times. A bunch of lawyers (ACLU)with a lot of money backed by the liberal medias and liberal hollywood celebrities are winning all the time.

This is totally a different topic and if you guys want to open it I'll be happy to get into a discussion with you.

Basically put, religion needs to keep its place and away from my government, and those who wish to deny another American their unalienable rights to life, liberty, and their pursuit of happiness because their "God" says so need to get the **** out of my country. This is the very core of our constitution, the core of the American life, and there are people that want to deny it because of religion. That is the worst atrocity here.

Religion is what founded this country and not by a bunch of liberal athiests. You got the Catholic Missionaries in Calif, Arizona, New Mexico, to Texas all the all to the Puritans who landed in the Plymouth Rock, the Baptist, Methodist, and so on. It's religion what gave this country its identity. Our Founding Fathers were all religious men who quoted God many times all the way to Abraham Lincoln who quoted God when he wrote 4 scores and 7 years ago.

I don't care what Obama said in his acceptence speech, this is a Christian Country. The problem is the losers don't know when to shut up. It's like whinning little kids who keeps tagging at their parents. This was already put in a democratic way. We voted and twice traditional marriage won. That's how our Founding Fathers would have wanted it. Done in a Democratic way.

[adrummer02L78]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Religion is what founded this country and not by a bunch of liberal athiests. You got the Catholic Missionaries in Calif, Arizona, New Mexico, to Texas all the all to the Puritans who landed in the Plymouth Rock, the Baptist, Methodist, and so on. It's religion what gave this country its identity. Our Founding Fathers were all religious men who quoted God many times all the way to Abraham Lincoln who quoted God when he wrote 4 scores and 7 years ago.

I don't care what Obama said in his acceptance speech, this is a Christian Country.

That is true, if anyone doubts it, please explain to me why God is called upon in the Declaration of Independence which was before the Constitution and the basis for the revolution which brought this nation into existence as we know it. Also a pastor was one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence and one of the founding fathers, so plainly separation of church and state as the founding fathers intended did not mean an amoral, atheistic government. One Nation, under God.......

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

1.3 Personal Relationships

Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the
government's treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption,
immigration or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, license or
restrict personal relationships. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices
and personal relationships.

http://www.lp.org/platform


"When Libertarians say limited government - we truly mean limited!"

To the Dems - stay out of my pocket
To the Reps - stay out of my life

.

[adrummer02L78]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Thats the whole thing though, the people have spoken, and the judicial system and liberal government are trying to force their own agenda regardless of what the voters have already decided.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Religion is what founded this country and not by a bunch of liberal athiests. You got the Catholic Missionaries in Calif, Arizona, New Mexico, to Texas all the all to the Puritans who landed in the Plymouth Rock, the Baptist, Methodist, and so on. It's religion what gave this country its identity. Our Founding Fathers were all religious men who quoted God many times all the way to Abraham Lincoln who quoted God when he wrote 4 scores and 7 years ago.

I don't care what Obama said in his acceptence speech, this is a Christian Country. The problem is the losers don't know when to shut up. It's like whinning little kids who keeps tagging at their parents. This was already put in a democratic way. We voted and twice traditional marriage won. That's how our Founding Fathers would have wanted it. Done in a Democratic way.

:bs:

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Constitutionally, this should be a no-brainer - - A group of people are being denied rights based on their sexual orientation.

On the other hand, if the people VOTE to make their stance known the government should leave it alone. There is something wrong when the government will just overturn what the people Voted for just because a few people make a fuss over it.

Guess segregation laws are OK then. The majority voted for them too.

[adrummer02L78]

Re: Prop 8 poll

dude that page is bs pretty much. It says that what those of us who believe in the christian principles are wrong because they (the creators of that site) are 100% sure that they are right..... It also states in the treaty with Tripoli that the US is not founded on a christian religion, which is true, BUT christian principles are not a particular religion and nowhere is it stated that the US us not founded upon christian principles. Also their horrible exegesis of Biblical passages is absolutely funny to any biblical scholar.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: Prop 8 poll

dude that page is bs pretty much. It says that what those of us who believe in the christian principles are wrong because they (the creators of that site) are 100% sure that they are right..... It also states in the treaty with Tripoli that the US is not founded on a christian religion, which is true, BUT christian principles are not a particular religion and nowhere is it stated that the US us not founded upon christian principles. Also their horrible exegesis of Biblical passages is absolutely funny to any biblical scholar.

If you would bother to actually do the research, you would find it to be very true - but since it flys in the face of those with an agenda it must be BS. :)

[adrummer02L78]

Re: Prop 8 poll

actually I did do the research seeing as how I studied history, philosophy and biblical studies in college, and I also read the entire page which you presented.