Prop 8 poll

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Prop 8 poll

I believe that the Government should hold no authority over marriage whatsoever due to marriage being a religious institution. Marriage since the beginning of its inception has always been linked to religion and there is separation of Church and state in this country.(Although that is up for interpretation as well) Therefore in my book there should be no marriage license, because in all reality its just a way to tax the people more.
This would solve everything because homosexuals, though I disagree with the lifestyle, could have their way, and religious people cold have theirs.

Exactly my point.

[Bonemaro]

Re: Prop 8 poll

My marriage was made legal by a government contract. Nowhere in the ceremony was God even mentioned.

[vanbibber]

Re: Prop 8 poll

woman on woman might not be natural, but with the right ones its pretty hot.

[vanbibber]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Like I said, this was voted 2 x's already in Calif. and twice traditional marriage won. Now if you believe in democracy this should stay.

but thats the beauty of a democracy (or follie) it can be appeal over and over and over again.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Prop 8 poll

I believe that the Government should hold no authority over marriage whatsoever due to marriage being a religious institution. Marriage since the beginning of its inception has always been linked to religion and there is separation of Church and state in this country.(Although that is up for interpretation as well) Therefore in my book there should be no marriage license, because in all reality its just a way to tax the people more.
This would solve everything because homosexuals, though I disagree with the lifestyle, could have their way, and religious people cold have theirs.

Except the word "marriage" is used in too many state and local laws. Civil union excludes the word "marriage" so it can be used against a couple with a civil union in court.

Listen, its not the RELIGIOUS meaning of the word that is getting the majority riled, its the LEGAL meaning. Again, the word "marriage" is used in too many civil laws, you can't replace "marriage" with civil union in every one of them.

[Heywood]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Thor, I've tried to answer all of your questions directed at me, but you keep ignoring the questions I have asked you. You keep talking in circles, re-stating the same things over and over again as though the more you say it the more true it becomes. You contradict yourself and pretend that you did not. You continue to try to make an absurd, ridiculous, and insulting connection between pedophilia and homosexuality, then ignore my questions poking holes in such theories. If you disagree to anything I have said in this paragraph, you need to read my last post... No, wait, you only need to read your own second-to-last post in this thread where you quoted the questions I have asked you then blatantly ignored them. Good luck living in your bubble of denial.

As far as where in the bible it condones child abuse, slavery, incest, rape, murder, etc, I can only suggest you either read more of the bible or none of it at all.

[Bonemaro]

Re: Prop 8 poll

woman on woman might not be natural, but with the right ones its pretty hot.

Now yer talkin', ma man! :excited:

[dmw319]

Re: Prop 8 poll

As far as where in the bible it condones child abuse, slavery, incest, rape, murder, etc, I can only suggest you either read more of the bible or none of it at all.

I am curious.. do you read or study the Bible?

You PM'ed me a bunch of bible verses about these things, and no offense but I do not think you fully comprehend their context. You cannot read scripture without understanding the redemptive history that occurs with the old and new covenants. We are not living under the law anymore, so to quote a bunch of old testament (they all were by the way) does not have add any leverage to your arguement.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Prop 8 poll

All of this convo is living, breathing proof of the change into a fascist state, led by the tea party and Christian conservatives.

[T-Mill]

Re: Prop 8 poll

If you believe that marriage is defined by law and not defined by religion, then by your own argument, the constitution bears no authority over marriage, thus delegating it to the states, which gives the states the constitutional right and authority to pass a law which defines marriage as between one man and one woman



This is the beauty of this country and our constitution... the constitution protects our BASIC rights as individuals, and each individual state is protected from the federal government by the constitution, allowing each state to make it's own laws. My vote to basically ban gay marriage doesn't affect anyone who doesn't live in Ohio... and someone's vote in Massachusetts to allow gay marriage doesn't affect me...

[v6mOtOrhEAdftOp]

Re: Prop 8 poll

First off, I have nothing against same sex partners. I do however agree that their bondage should not be viewed as a marriage. If you want my reasons, please pm me and I will be glad to send you my 37 page report on the reformation of our current national union between various partners.

Something that you guys have not recognized is that reguardless of what we think, we are only including a partial group of people to whic this would affect. If we allow same sex marriage, the bondage no longer becomes a christian religious aspect and becomes part of the law.

Now in 24 states, marriage between 3 or more parties is considered illegal, although the state technically has no ability to enforce the law as it is apart of religion, which is absent from law.

Take gay marriage, then take multiple partners and tell me who comes after this.

Eventually, we will allow people to have many marriages, causing more illegal aliens to gain citizenship in the US, turning this particular action into a business opportunity.

When people stop becoming so narrowminded and open up to ow the legal changes will actually reform the nation, the group as a whole will be able to make a better decision, while ignoring all the media bs.

My article has been published in 3 law text books and it is banned in a judicial system argument, yet still holds precendence in class discussions.

You tell me where we have a say in our law system, and I'll show you where we dont.

[OneEightSeven]

Re: Prop 8 poll

People should be able to marry who they want. It's 2010 please get real. The idea of being with a guy sexually does not appeal to me, but you can't let your emotions cloud the truth. Gay marriage is needed in our society. Gay/lesbian couples have real problems because we don't have equal protection for gays. Homosexuals often can't visit their partner in the hospital, because they aren't married. Imagine being in the hospital and being told the person you love can't visit you. How about benefits? Some employers are starting to offer insurance and benefits to life partners of employees, but these employers are far and few in between. Wouldn't it suck if your loved one couldn't receive your pension if you were to pass away? There are thousands of bull**** bureaucratic issues, big and small that us heterosexuals take for granted. Gays have to fight for these things every day and frankly it's unfair to expect a fellow human being to suffer through unnecessary red tape. Imagine having to discuss your sex life with every single administrator of an institution you deal with.

That being said you will find this argument is much like the liberal anti-gun argument. No matter how much you argue with those liberal anti-gun people they will always find the next excuse. It doesn't matter how illogical their reasoning is. To them guns are evil and changing their mind is like pulling teeth. I will however pick through some of the funnier arguments I saw in this thread:

venom3300: It is simply unnatural. two men cannot have a baby, neither can two women, it is that way for a reason... regardless of religion.

Marriage is not a requirement for having a child. Having a child is not a requirement of marriage.

ssms5411: if everyone was gay in the begining we would of all have died off from old age a very long time ago.

I kind of think (hope) you're trolling ;-), but I'll bite. Everyone couldn't be gay in the beginning as that would be impossible. Gay marriage has no bearing on the amount of gay people. Married or not, if your argument were right (which it's not) marriage would have no bearing on the extinction of our race.

venom3300: clearly men and women should be together to insure offspring.

Clearly they do. In and out of marriage. Marriage seems to have little bearing on procreation. Unless it's a "oops I didn't pull out, will you marry me?" kind of marriage.

ssms5411: Its nature, how many animals pair up that are of the same sex?

It happens in nature all the time man. I'm sure you've seen dogs try to hump other male dogs before. It's fairly common and not just amongst dogs.

venom3300: with gay marriage, children are made to think gay is right

Ah.. the "think of the children" argument. You hear this from the anti-gun crowd all the time. I don't believe being gay is inherently a learned behavior. I believe that homosexuality as a learned behavior represents a very small percentage of the homosexual population. You can't seriously believe that knowledge that gay marriage is legal is going to make kids gay... especially considering that being gay is not illegal....

venom3300: nature says so because gays are not self-sustaining

Marriage is an institution created by humans. It is part of nature in the sense that everything we create (guns, books, buildings, etc..) is part of nature since we are nature. But marriage on it's own is not a 'natural' phenomenon, if that's what you were getting at. You don't see animals getting married.

adrummer02L78: Most words that have been in the vernacular for so long and have an amount of "sacredness" attached to them are seldom if ever redefined.

Gay used to mainly mean happy. Languages and meanings of words change over time. It's a fact of life. Words shouldn't be sacred. The love for your wife should be.

venom3300: also you see what happens without a lifelong partner in places like africa and the gay community where aids and STDs run rampant.

Sub-Saharan Africa is incredibly impoverished. The fact that STDs are rampant is a reflection of their lack of education and poor economics. This has nothing to do with gay marriage nor gays. People there have seriously "raped virgins" because "it cures aids"... Those parts of Africa are like a whole different world. You can't seriously make this comparison....


I'd pick out more but I can't be bothered.

[vanbibber]

Re: Prop 8 poll

maybe all dinosaurs were gay and thats why they are extinct!

[Heywood]

Re: Prop 8 poll

[venom3300]

Re: Prop 8 poll

Ah.. the "think of the children" argument. You hear this from the anti-gun crowd all the time. I don't believe being gay is inherently a learned behavior. I believe that homosexuality as a learned behavior represents a very small percentage of the homosexual population. You can't seriously believe that knowledge that gay marriage is legal is going to make kids gay... especially considering that being gay is not illegal....

you cant tell me people dont look up to their parents and want to be like them for the most part.

Marriage is an institution created by humans. It is part of nature in the sense that everything we create (guns, books, buildings, etc..) is part of nature since we are nature. But marriage on it's own is not a 'natural' phenomenon, if that's what you were getting at. You don't see animals getting married.

not as in a ceremony but some do pick life long partners.

as for created by humans, that is your belief. just like it is my belief that it was created by God

Sub-Saharan Africa is incredibly impoverished. The fact that STDs are rampant is a reflection of their lack of education and poor economics. This has nothing to do with gay marriage nor gays. People there have seriously "raped virgins" because "it cures aids"... Those parts of Africa are like a whole different world. You can't seriously make this comparison....

how would you like to explain the aids in the gay americans that are not impoverished or ignorant?



also gay unions/ marriages end in a much higher divorce rate that heterosexual one, especially for women. This is in my psychology book, ill get the name of the book friday or sunday when im at home