move over lsx

[2.8 Bird]

Re: move over lsx

How I'm I being ignorant when comparing the base model of the Viper to the base model corvette? I think thats a damn good comparison! But a lot of Corvette nutzwingers out there love pairing up the base model Viper against the plus model vette(ZR1,Z06) and call it fair, same with several other cars. Whats their excuse? Price?

....

You have to look at the price of the 2 though. ZO6 is still cheaper than the base Viper. So it's safe to bet that the 2 are a fair match.

BTW... the new Viper will hit 100k in price range from what I heard.

[vanbibber]

Re: move over lsx

How I'm I being ignorant when comparing the base model of the Viper to the base model corvette? I think thats a damn good comparison! But a lot of Corvette nutzwingers out there love pairing up the base model Viper against the plus model vette(ZR1,Z06) and call it fair, same with several other cars. Whats their excuse? Price?

No one cars about price! The numbers I care about is the performance! and besides isn't the Vette suppose to be the best bang for the buck super car killer? Should we include the base GTR, M412C, F458 and Gallardo, 911 Turbo in this to? I think not....

just wanted to quote for still not getting it. heres a couple numbers for you.

the 2011 c6 production numbers

A total of 11,647 Corvettes were produced: 24.4% were base coupes, 5.3% were base convertibles, 43.4% were Grand Sport Coupes, 19.5% were Grand Sport Convertibles, 4.1% were Z06s, and 3.5% were ZR1s.

2012 Corvette Coupe $49,525
1LT Base Equipment Group $0
2LT Equipment Group $2,095
3LT Preferred Equipment Group $5,995
4LT Premium Equipment Group $9,495

2012 Corvette Convertible $54,525
1LT Base Equipment Group $0
2LT Equipment Group $2,095
3LT Preferred Equipment Group $7,995
4LT Premium Equipment Group $11,495

2012 Corvette Grand Sport Coupe $55,925
1LT Base Equipment Group $0
2LT Equipment Group $2,095
3LT Preferred Equipment Group $5,995
4LT Premium Equipment Group $9,495

2012 Corvette Grand Sport Convertible $59,525
1LT Base Equipment Group $0
2LT Equipment Group $2,095
3LT Preferred Equipment Group $7,995
4LT Premium Equipment Group $11,495

2012 Corvette Z06 $75,525
1LZ Base Equipment Group $0
2LZ Preferred Equipment Group $4,310
3LZ Premium Equipment Group $8,815

2012 Corvette ZR1 $111,525
1ZR Base Equipment Group $0
3ZR Premium Equipment Group $10,000

29,465 thats the grand total of vipers ever made, every trim and special edition of it.

just for fun, chevy built 28,826 Fixed roof C5s alone during a good chunk of that time span, a shade over 77,000 verts and close to 110,000 coupes. thats just C5s. And the funny thing is, the c6 as of now is at over 150,000 cars produced as we speak across all trims.

the viper will cost no less than 95,000 and im willing to bet nobody will ever pay less than 105k for a new one.

so lets take a look at our numbers up there, yup, i can buy 2 base model c6 vettes for the price of one (as you call it) "base" viper.

whats that? you want to include the GTR? 97k. The MP4-12c? no less than 240k. 458? good luck finding a new one here for less than 290k. Gallardo? around 180k for the lowest model. 911 turbo? At least 135k for one of them.

And you want to talk about performance?

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

zr1s look pretty bang for the buck to me. sure is alot of the cars you wanted to throw in the fire UNDER it on the measuring stick of tracks.

the old ACR is the only car on there faster. but its only barely a legal street car and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone buying one for much else than track racing, its stripped to nothing and wearing adjustable aero and suspension. its a race car with street plates. the ride quality for anything but a track is terrible, and yes, i have been in one. its not a DD.

saying theres a "base model" viper is like saying theres a top of the line ford festiva. its ****ing stupid.

i dont hate the viper in fact its been one of my favorite cars since the day my buddies dad rolled up in a brand new 93 viper back in the day, but your argument is ignorant on every level. fact remains, one is mass produced. one is NOT. price matters plenty when comparing 2 entirely different breeds. compare apples to apples and the zr1 thats built for exclusivity like the viper compares plenty well and in some cases does better with less.

[1997Canadian3.8]

Re: move over lsx

You think that with the Viper is hitting the glass ceiling so quickly is foolish. We've only seen the GTS model, we don't know if they are going to do an ACR, GTS-R to compete against the Z06 and ZR1 cause you know they probably will. Ferrari isn't like GM that will shut down a project because its faster than the Corvette like they did with the Buick Grand National back in the 80's. They allowed the Maserati MC12 to be "Slightly" faster than the Enzo, not to mention be more exclusive with a limited production run of 30 units or something like that. The Enzo replacement will probably put up Veyron like performance numbers if not better so building a production car that can top that for less than a 100k thats not a tuner or a kit car is highly unlikely. Even if they built a Super snake its gonna probably cost a hefty penny.

You need to think about what you're saying.

That was all before Sergio Marchionne took over Chrysler. Fiat will not allow a cheaper car to out do the high end Ferraris. I'm not just spewing bs. I know for a fact.

Each company doesn't run their own show under the Fiat umbrella. It's all over seen by Sergio.

You're making ridiculous arguments. Do a little Google search on supply and demand. That might help you figure out why used Corvettes are so much cheaper than used Vipers....

[FIREBIRDV6RAGE]

Re: move over lsx

i got no beef, hes just being ignorant. comparing a base model vette motor to a viper motor is like comparing a cessna plane engine to a F22s. its retarded. at this point the difference between a base c6/ future c7 and a new viper is night and day. atleast compare apples to apples, not apples to footballs. one is a mass market car for everyone the other is its own brand because of its limited run numbers. if youre going to compare a 97k msrp car to one atleast have common sense enough to use a comparatively priced corvette built to whip its *** right off the factory floor.

you do have a point the 2 vettes are different

[VF1Skullangel]

Re: move over lsx

You have to look at the price of the 2 though. ZO6 is still cheaper than the base Viper. So it's safe to bet that the 2 are a fair match.

BTW... the new Viper will hit 100k in price range from what I heard.

Even then, thats still the Vipers base model coupe which should have been matched against the base C6. There was never truly a Z06 competitor for it, only the ACR which was more built to take on the ZR1 and mind you it was slightly faster and cheaper than the ZR1.

For this new car. I wouldn't doubt it will be priced at around $125k or so right out the door. The new ACR probably $150k.

You need to think about what you're saying.

That was all before Sergio Marchionne took over Chrysler. Fiat will not allow a cheaper car to out do the high end Ferraris. I'm not just spewing bs. I know for a fact.

Each company doesn't run their own show under the Fiat umbrella. It's all over seen by Sergio.

You're making ridiculous arguments. Do a little Google search on supply and demand. That might help you figure out why used Corvettes are so much cheaper than used Vipers....

I'm stating the facts. Ferrari probably won't care as they haven't in the past with Maserati. Unless they allow SRT to build the ACR to run circles around the Enzo's replacement they probably won't care to limit the new Viper especially since SRT now on its own and just starting out as its own brand of cars and its not considered a "Dodge" no more.

[VF1Skullangel]

Re: move over lsx

the viper will cost no less than 95,000 and im willing to bet nobody will ever pay less than 105k for a new one.

I'm sure plenty of people are going to pay at least $125k out the door for a new one. Maybe more. It happened back in 1993 when the Viper was brand new and originally was suppose to cost 50k and people ended up spending over 80k.

so lets take a look at our numbers up there, yup, i can buy 2 base model c6 vettes for the price of one (as you call it) "base" viper.

You go on ahead and do that, I promise you those two C6's won't hold their value nearly as great as that one Viper will over the course of 5 years when you wanna re-sell it to buy the new Z06. As i've stated before I've already seen several C6's selling for around the mid 20's from 50k a couple of years ago. I just don't think buying a new Corvette is worth it.

whats that? you want to include the GTR? 97k. The MP4-12c? no less than 240k. 458? good luck finding a new one here for less than 290k. Gallardo? around 180k for the lowest model. 911 turbo? At least 135k for one of them.

Thats the only aspect I see the Corvette exceeding here is in price. off the showroom floor its fairly decent for what you get. but then again the car will be worth 50k in 5 years from now or less when originally paid 120k for it new. The GTR stacks up very well and its not even a plus model like a spec V or anything like that while its running with the ZR1 out pacing the Z06 easily. Gallardo, old technology from 2004, 911 Turbo it really depends cause theres to many models of those made I can barley keep up on production. MP4-12C and F458 are expensive but damn good performers to.

And you want to talk about performance?

http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

zr1s look pretty bang for the buck to me. sure is alot of the cars you wanted to throw in the fire UNDER it on the measuring stick of tracks.

I kind of figured you'd pull the ZR1 is better than all at the N-ring card, you know the numbers are the numbers but the problem is not everyone will race at the N-ring let alone put up those numbers exact. Its kind of pointless.

the old ACR is the only car on there faster. but its only barely a legal street car and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone buying one for much else than track racing, its stripped to nothing and wearing adjustable aero and suspension. its a race car with street plates. the ride quality for anything but a track is terrible, and yes, i have been in one. its not a DD.

The Viper isn't suppose to be a DD, the ACR is suppose to be a drivers car like the Mclaren F1 or Ferrari F40. of course it won't have all the creature comforts as a typical car would. I won't lie, I've been in one myself and disliked it. But i still prefered it over the ZR1's cheap plastic interior with its Carbon fiber sticker interior that you could peel off with your finger nails if you pic at one of the corners long enough. I guess GM had to compormise somewere to get the car to be inexpensive and they did so in the build quality. I've heard of guys ripping the door handles off just getting out of the car.

saying theres a "base model" viper is like saying theres a top of the line ford festiva. its ****ing stupid.

So running GM's top of the line ZR1 against a Viper(Non ACR) and GTR (Non Spec V) is fair?

i dont hate the viper in fact its been one of my favorite cars since the day my buddies dad rolled up in a brand new 93 viper back in the day, but your argument is ignorant on every level. fact remains, one is mass produced. one is NOT. price matters plenty when comparing 2 entirely different breeds. compare apples to apples and the zr1 thats built for exclusivity like the viper compares plenty well and in some cases does better with less.

Every thing since that TSC thread from you has been ignorant this and ignorant that. I'm over that sh!t. Viper is just that much of a competitor to the Corvette as the Ferrari is to the Lamborghini or the Camaro to the Mustang. I love it when people pull the Price card but yet they don't wanna accept some of the other factors and its perfectly okay to run a ZR1 against a base GTR or Viper but not a spec V or an ACR. Isn't the Corvette suppose to be the greatest bang for the buck deal? why should price even be brought up in the first place? its suppose to be an Enzo contender without spending millions.

[2.8 Bird]

Re: move over lsx

Even then, thats still the Vipers base model coupe which should have been matched against the base C6. There was never truly a Z06 competitor for it, only the ACR which was more built to take on the ZR1 and mind you it was slightly faster and cheaper than the ZR1.

Vipers don't really have that many options like the Vette. The base model Vette - main purpose is for DD, cheaper insurance rate, and all around easy to live it. You can't do that with the base Viper, which you only get 9 mpg and 14mpg hwy. and insane insurance rate.

ACR and ZR1 are about the same showroom price for 2008.

[1997Canadian3.8]

Re: move over lsx

You go on ahead and do that, I promise you those two C6's won't hold their value nearly as great as that one Viper will over the course of 5 years when you wanna re-sell it to buy the new Z06. As i've stated before I've already seen several C6's selling for around the mid 20's from 50k a couple of years ago. I just don't think buying a new Corvette is worth it.

You really don't get it. More cars produced = less value. The whole bang for buck proves true even after a few years.

As for the N-ring numbers you attempted to discredit. In case you didn't know, N-ring numbers are a measuring stick. No of course not every owner will drive on the track, but it gives an idea on over all performance.


Quit digging deep to defend a car you'll never own. Corvette is good bang for buck speed, not question about it. It wont hold its value for a reason, think about it.