SIX Federal popos outside my office this morning???

[imported_admin]

Okay, I work for a privately-owned corporation that leases office space from a privately-owned commercial real estate company. Our office is in an office park known as Tyson's II, two buildings down from Gannett (USA Today), Freddie Mac, and Capital One. Across the street is some sort of Federal government building. They have guards that check people's IDs as they enter their parking lot--guards armed with rifles and M-16's (basically overpaid, overarmed parking lot attendents). My building is really nothing to brag about but next door is a gorgeous ultra-high tech office with six floors, mirror windows, a huge cathedral lobby that you can see when you drive by, etc. etc. It was built four years ago and has stood vacant ever since. My building has a parking garage and the nice building has a garage--both share a driveway (sort of), so employees at our building park in both garages since the other building is vacant. I am one of the people that parks in that garage.

Every day there is a Federal cop stationed by the flagpoles outside that building. Fine, they have a federal building across the street.

But lately it seems they've gotten worse. The cops get bored sitting in their cruisers day in and day out every day so they run "exercises" in the garage. There was a memo posted a while back warning employees here about fast-moving police vehicles in that garage. They TEAR up and down the lanes INSIDE THE GARAGE... apparently oblivious to the fact that the garage has four floors and the bottom two are just about always full of CIVILIAN CARS and that building is also PRIVATE PROPERTY... owned by the same company that owns my building and my garage.

Well, this morning I drive in at 6:45 a.m. to see SIX fed cops sitting outside the other building. What are they doing? Standing around in a mob, laughing and joking about those things that bored cops joke about.

The funding for these Federal police keeps getting bumped higher and higher, they keep putting more and more cruisers and officers on the street--to do what? Protect us against those horrible terrorists who are lurking everywhere! They could be right around the corner from you, we'd better put a police unit on every street corner to protect your safety! :rolleyes:

The irony here? As Federal police funding skyrockets, the building they are inadvertently guarding remains vacant.

Why the hell can't the administration in power worry about the real issue here--FIX THE ECONOMY SO THAT BUILDING NO LONGER IS VACANT??? The irony here is just sickening. The more you spend on defense, the better your per capita protection will be--because you'll have idle cops standing around guarding more and more vacant office buildings.

It is a sad, sad age we live in. :(

[L32Projekt]

Stefan,

I know that you're against overspending in the Fed Govt. but you seem to be quite unreasonable about the guard's activities. Exercises keep their proficiency up, and also increases alertness. I understand your concern about their proximity to the vehicles in the garage, but as they say: You train like you fight. You wouldn't want an armed response by guards who don't know how to respond to an incident around a crowded parking lot if they've only trained in an empty one.

In my job as an "Overpaid, overarmed parking lot attendant" we run exercises in crowded parking lots all day as well with whiny civilians concerned about their vehicles as well, but nothing happens, they don't ran over (yes, even in their self-absorbed stupor walking around with a cell phone glued to their ear) and their property is not damaged. Oh, and I usually drive an Expedition through these parking lots.

My job? Security Forces member in the USAF. Not glorious, but I take my training and my job seriously, much like the people you just slammed. Get past the whole "I'm soooo inconvinienced" attitude and please understand that security and convenience DO NOT go together. You have one or the other. You want to blame someone for being uncomfortable, blame it on the Muslim extremists out there.

Have a bit more trust in the people that are armed to protect both personnel and resources, we're well trained and have a bit more common sense than you may think...

EDIT: One more point - "idle" cops are still a force multiplier, they are there as a "presence" and a show of force. Would you rather cops talk and are alert, or asleep? :D Also, the vacant building that was constructed and never moved into was a mistake made by the company that funded the project, apparently the demand isn't there for a building at that location.

[ October 04, 2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: L32Projekt ]

[imported_admin]

Disclaimer: take nothing personal in this thread at all, this is a civil, educated debate about government spending priorities. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
Exercises keep their proficiency up, and also increases alertness. I understand your concern about their proximity to the vehicles in the garage, but as they say: You train like you fight. You wouldn't want an armed response by guards who don't know how to respond to an incident around a crowded parking lot if they've only trained in an empty one.

Ever heard of a word called liability? There was a MEMO from the building owner warning employees about this... something along the lines of "we won't stop them but we didn't ask them to be here on our property". It also mentioned that if anything happens to notify the building owner immediately.

Its only a matter of time before one of those moron cops nails a pedestrian and gets sued for millions. On COMPANY PROPERTY I have a RIGHT to walk to my car in safety without worrying about some police training exercise flying around at 20+ mph in a crowded parking garage! This is not a military training center... this is a friggin civilian office building. They have NO right to be here. They want to train in crowded parking lots? Fine, do it on base or on government property.

Yes, people in my building are zombies who scurry around with one cellphone in each ear constantly worried about this or that business operation. But those are the Americans that make America what it is--prosperous. Without people like them there would be no money to fund security forces.

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
In my job as an "Overpaid, overarmed parking lot attendant" we run exercises in crowded parking lots all day as well with whiny civilians concerned about their vehicles as well, but nothing happens, they don't ran over (yes, even in their self-absorbed stupor walking around with a cell phone glued to their ear) and their property is not damaged. Oh, and I usually drive an Expedition through these parking lots.

Then count your blessings that you haven't gotten sued and lost your job yet. Again, police have NO RIGHT to subject civilians to that reckless endangerment in the name of "training". If I drove like that I'd get thrown in jail--why should police be any different? Police have a responsibility to protect the safety of innocents. I don't think those cops were actually training. I think they were goofing off. I strongly, STRONGLY doubt that they have permission to drive like that in my garage.

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
Get past the whole "I'm soooo inconvinienced" attitude and please understand that security and convenience DO NOT go together. You have one or the other. You want to blame someone for being uncomfortable, blame it on the Muslim extremists out there.

You don't seem to understand... the so-called "War on Terror" is about as much of a war as the war on drugs. It is not a war. It is a counterintelligence operation that the Bush Administration wants the American people to THINK is a war so he can basically instigate martial law.

You talk about security and convenience... I don't WANT security, at least in the way that people seem to think of "security" today. I don't want to live in a police state. Yet for the past few years everyone in uniform or public office seems to think that in order to be safe we have to give up our liberties one after another.

Ben Franklin once said something that you "security" freaks need to remember:

"Any man who would sacrifice freedom for safety deserves neither."

And guess what? German citizens were "safe" in Hitler's Third Reich too.

Besides, the more America fights, the more the terrorists fight back... think of terrorists as being rebellious teenagers and America is the parent. Pulling the leash tighter and tighter only has the opposite effect. But that's another argument altogether...

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
Have a bit more trust in the people that are armed to protect both personnel and resources, we're well trained and have a bit more common sense than you may think...

Um, no. They're morons. Several of them barely speak English. Yet they're in Federal Government blue uniforms, they drive worse than D.C. taxi drivers, and they couldn't stop a crime let alone a terrorist to save their life.

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
EDIT: One more point - "idle" cops are still a force multiplier, they are there as a "presence" and a show of force. Would you rather cops talk and are alert, or asleep?

I'd rather have them downsized and the money used for more productive measures. The typical government mind says "increase funding!" to get anything done. So what happens? Instead of making police/security more efficient they have mobs of cops sitting around on their butts guarding the wrong target.

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
Also, the vacant building that was constructed and never moved into was a mistake made by the company that funded the project, apparently the demand isn't there for a building at that location.

No, it was built, as many other offices were, in Northern Virginia in the late 90's during an economic boom. Then Bush comes along and leads us to war... the economy hasn't recovered since. If we'd stop wasting federal dollars on needless police and instead invested it in something meaningful then maybe the economy would take off again and that building wouldn't be vacant.

Think about it: the Dow Jones Industrial Average is at the same point if not lower than it was four years ago. How do you explain that? The economy is going nowhere and Republicans are supposed to spend LESS than Democrats... yet for years now, the federal government has been spending more than ever before on police, military, and "security". What a waste.

[2000v6bird]

In case you forgot... those two HUGE buildings that were known as the World Trade Center are now vacant too and it is not because of the "administration in power" fault nor is it because of the economy. Have a cup of coffee and your pack of cigarettes and get on with your life.

[imported_admin]

So you're just going to dwell on 9/11 forever? You're going to let those terrorists ruin our economy and our liberties? You're going to let them force us to be subject to this near-martial-law police state BS?

In that case the terrorists have already won.

[2000v6bird]

When terrorist are actively trying to attack us and we are at war with them... yes, you increase homeland security so you're not fighting the war in our country. What doesn't make sense about that?

You can fight the war on our soil or on their soil... which one would you like to do?

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by 2000v6bird:
When terrorist are actively trying to attack us and we are at war with them... yes, you increase homeland security so you're not fighting the war in our country. What doesn't make sense about that?

You're proving my point exactly.

Terrorists have been "actively" trying to attack us for fifty years--there's nothing new there. It has always just been referred to as covert operations. Now it has been labelled a "war" so the police/government can overstep their bounds.

Originally posted by 2000v6bird:
You can fight the war on our soil or on their soil... which one would you like to do?

We're not fighting on the terrorists' soil. They have safe haven in dozens of countries. We invaded one. As I've said before, what are we going to do, invade every country on the planet that potentially harbors terrorists? We can't even keep the terrorists down in Iraq, the one country we did "successfully" invade. What makes you think we'd be able to stop them on their soil in other countries?

Its called a lost cause. This war cannot be won. But there are alternatives to fighting. Stop provoking them with the "don't mess with the U.S." attitude and their attacks will diminish.

[L32Projekt]

Originally posted by Stefan:
Ever heard of a word called liability? There was a MEMO from the building owner warning employees about this... something along the lines of "we won't stop them but we didn't ask them to be here on our property". It also mentioned that if anything happens to notify the building owner immediately.

Yeah, I do understand the word "liability." I cannot be directly sued for some mishap. As I've already explained to you, I'm in the Air Force, a military member and they'd have to sue the military to try to get at me.

Originally posted by Stefan:
Then count your blessings that you haven't gotten sued and lost your job yet. Again, police have NO RIGHT to subject civilians to that reckless endangerment in the name of "training". If I drove like that I'd get thrown in jail--why should police be any different?

Because you have no NEED to drive like that, nor have you gone through any special training to drive in a response-type situation. Another example how you think you should be afforded the same "rights" a first responder has...

Originally posted by Stefan:
Yes, people in my building are zombies who scurry around with one cellphone in each ear constantly worried about this or that business operation. But those are the Americans that make America what it is--prosperous. Without people like them there would be no money to fund security forces.

Never disputed that in the least, just saying people don't have a right to not pay attention to their surroundings, that's just plain stupid. I don't cross the street without looking, do you? If I did I wouldn't sue the person who hit me for not being responsible enough to know I was lacking common sense...

Originally posted by Stefan:Then count your blessings that you haven't gotten sued and lost your job yet. Again, police have NO RIGHT to subject civilians to that reckless endangerment in the name of "training". If I drove like that I'd get thrown in jail--why should police be any different? Police have a responsibility to protect the safety of innocents. I don't think those cops were actually training. I think they were goofing off. I strongly, STRONGLY doubt that they have permission to drive like that in my garage.

Are we working off of assumptions that they were goofing off? I'm sure lots of people who work in my area think we're "goofing off" when we're conducting serious training. C'mon Stefan, your garage? You pay for it? :D

Originally posted by Stefan:
Instead of making police/security more efficient they have mobs of cops sitting around on their butts guarding the wrong target.

C'mon bubba... you get the briefs on what the current intel is? You know what the current targets are? You're better informed than I, buddy. I don't think you have the information required to make any informed decisions about anything regarding homeland security.

As for any other arguments you have, I'm just going to sum it up like this: To even compare this nation to what happened to Germany in the 1930's is rediculous. If your paranoid theories pan out, give me a call and I'll say you're right.

No, I'm not taking this personally, there's some serious flaws in your uninformed logic that have to be debated. If I may, I need to get ready for more training for my job. Yes, this cuts into my sleep schedule. No, I don't get paid overtime for it. It does help with securing the installation I'm responsible for, however. ;)

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
As for any other arguments you have, I'm just going to sum it up like this: To even compare this nation to what happened to Germany in the 1930's is rediculous. If your paranoid theories pan out, give me a call and I'll say you're right.

Who's the paranoid one? Me because I am for individual liberties, limited government, and reduced secret police? Or you because you think terrorists are everywhere and we need dozens of uniformed officers with unlimited powers of arrest (can we say PATRIOT ACT?) on every street corner and outside every vacant high-tech office building to protect us?

[chas]

its unclear to me how many high speed chases they will have in a parking garage. it does seem reckless to practice while citizen owned cars are present.

[Johnny Ray]

Sometimes things are not what they appear to be to the uninformed.


:cool:

[L32Projekt]

Originally posted by Stefan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by L32Projekt:
As for any other arguments you have, I'm just going to sum it up like this: To even compare this nation to what happened to Germany in the 1930's is rediculous. If your paranoid theories pan out, give me a call and I'll say you're right.

Who's the paranoid one? Me because I am for individual liberties, limited government, and reduced secret police? Or you because you think terrorists are everywhere and we need dozens of uniformed officers with unlimited powers of arrest (can we say PATRIOT ACT?) on every street corner and outside every vacant high-tech office building to protect us? </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, I'm sorry? Did I say that we NEED all these officers out there, or are you assuming again Stefan? Don't debate me, debate the topic. I never once stated anything about the NEED for more officers, did I? I never stated that terrorists were everywhere, but I am privvy to more information than you are. Stop taking things out of context and just concede a point once in a while Stefan, people would respect you more if they knew you'd admit when someone aside from yourself is right once in a while... ;)

If keeping an eye out for anything that may be wrong/out of place and doing my duty for this country makes me paranoid, you're absolutely correct Stephan. Have a nice day.

[MrCoffee]

maybe there's really something in there worth guarding. Maybe the mirrored glass prevents you from looking into the real truth. They only allow you to see a vacent cathedral style lobby so as to appear empty. It could all be a huge conspiracy right next to the very place you work! You should go be the cv6/fv6 sluth and break into this supposid "empty building" and fine out the truth.

And if we never hear from you again we'll all assume you were 'taken by the man' and forced to work as a museum janitor for the rest of your life.

[imported_admin]

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
Oh, I'm sorry? Did I say that we NEED all these officers out there, or are you assuming again Stefan? Don't debate me, debate the topic. I never once stated anything about the NEED for more officers, did I?

The topic is that the Feds are wasting money by spending far too much on "security" and therefore ignoring the economy. I am debating the topic, you are the one who defended these officers' actions. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
Stop taking things out of context and just concede a point once in a while Stefan, people would respect you more if they knew you'd admit when someone aside from yourself is right once in a while... ;)

What point should I concede? I think the government is pissing away MY tax dollars unnecessarily.

Originally posted by L32Projekt:
If keeping an eye out for anything that may be wrong/out of place and doing my duty for this country makes me paranoid, you're absolutely correct Stephan. Have a nice day.

Yes, you are paranoid. Have you read the news lately? People get harassed/arrested for looking suspicious every day, with no due process of law. That's what the recent expanded police powers is all about. Those checks and balances that limit police power are there for a reason. We as Americans used to cherish them, but lately it seems they have been thrown out the window.

My duty as a citizen is to keep an eye out for government stupidity and bring it to light so as to educate fellow citizens to vote accordingly. This country is still "by the people, for the people", right?

[Domestic Violence]

Originally posted by Stefan:
You don't seem to understand... the so-called "War on Terror" is about as much of a war as the war on drugs. It is not a war. It is a counterintelligence operation that the Bush Administration wants the American people to THINK is a war so he can basically instigate martial law.

You talk about security and convenience... I don't WANT security, at least in the way that people seem to think of "security" today. I don't want to live in a police state. Yet for the past few years everyone in uniform or public office seems to think that in order to be safe we have to give up our liberties one after another.

Besides, the more America fights, the more the terrorists fight back... think of terrorists as being rebellious teenagers and America is the parent. Pulling the leash tighter and tighter only has the opposite effect. But that's another argument altogether...

nothing could be further from the truth. do you know about the car found a few weeks ago? it had an AK-47 tied into the trunk. the driver could fire the weapon from inside the car. the car was also equipped with a smoke screen device, oil spray nozzle, and explosives. sound like something out of james bond? it's not. stuff like this has been recovered in significant numbers lately by those super troopers you're referring to.

fundamentalist muslims believe in what the quran says: the world should consist entirely of muslims. those who don't want to convert must pay extremely high taxes for the right to worship anything other than allah, or they must be killed. it is not even a close comparison to say they are rebellious teenagers. rebellious teenagers don't think it's a good idea to kill children by the hundreds. mohammed wasn't a prophet, he was a warrior who plundered everyone he conquered. he left mecca because of the persecution. he fled to medina, built up an army, then returned to mecca and killed everyone. look into it sometime. fundamentalist muslims are still capturing Christians, cutting off their limbs, and injecting them with aids. i think a little security is alright with me. taking a school full of kids hostage in po-dunk ville is just as frightening as slamming a plane into a major tower. ask israel about terrorists taking over a school and killing children. look at russia.

i see how it might appear to you, but some things that go on in this world aren't ordinarily exposed because of the immediate threat perceived by the public and the less attention these things garner, the better for us. terrorists want attention.