Abortion

[jc Kyle]

whoops misread ur point stefan, thought you were against me [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ka50]

I'd have to say pro-choice. Any given person cannot descide what any other given person wishes to do to their bodies. Every person's body belongs to them, therefore it is their right to descide what they want to do with it. We can advise them and inform them, but not descide for them.

And the issue of beginning of life... sperm is alive, as you know... so, each time you ejaculate, we can assume you're killing MILLIONS and MILLIONS of innocent sperms.

Sperm and egg are DNA carriers, when they combine, they start developing that DNA code within them. It's starting to grow, but it's not grown YET. How is egg being lost and sperm being lost not equals egg+sperm combined for a couple of months being lost?

It is indeed a complex issue, though, but I still have to say pro-choice.

[token sebring]

i find it somewhat amusing that (as far as I know) everyone who has presented an argument so far is male... i fully respect that you guys all have an opinion and i think it's great that you do... but for those who are anti-pro choice (and there is a difference between pro-abortion and pro-choice), i have to ask if you believe your position would be the same if you were a woman and your choices would become much more limited. Especially when it comes to a child conceived through rape. I imagine that it is an incredibly difficult decision to make for any woman (I haven't had to make it but I know people who have), regardless of who did the impregnating. It's easy for guys to say no i don't believe in it - give the child up for adoption instead, but you'll never fully understand what that would do to a woman - how much you become attached to the baby inside you - the pain you go through, etc.

Some women have conceived and loved children of rape, but I don't think that I could do it, if for no other reason than that then you are attached to your rapist in an even more intimate (if that's possible even though there is no real intimacy in rape) way than you were before.

I have never been able to say whether or not I would have had an abortion if I became pregnant (before I was married), but I would always want to know the option was there, and legal and safe. And just because it doesn't affect me personally so much anymore, doesn't mean I feel any differently about other women having that same choice...

[T-Punk]

yup im deffinately in the minority hear, anti-abortion. So is my girl, so no argument if anything happens. i think that if you do that act knowing the possibilities you should at least have the baby. adoption is a viable option, thought its not the best way to grow up its better than not being here at all. My best friend was put up for adoption because his parents couldnt afford to raise him and he understands, my girlfriend's mom gave birth to her in college and the father left during the pregnancy, i only have more respect for her mom for raising her on her own till my girlfriend was 5 and her mom got married. Once again ive added to much info but there are some good for instances in my life as to why i am very anit-abortion.

[Skapimp]

If you're for abortion in certain cases... you think abortions are great for certain cases, which means you're for abortions for certain cases.. which means you're for abortion.

If I'm for abortions, doesn't mean I'm for them for everything.

It's just semantics... I know... stupid to argue about.

[HAZ-Matt]

As Hobbes said, there is only philosophical debate because of the inability to agree on definitions.

Stefan brings up an interesting point, noting that life is really a continuum with no defined beginning*. He then goes on to point out that the gametes are living cells before they meet and fertilization occurs. While this is technically true, I do not find that relevant to the matter at hand. The question is rather "where does a human life begin?" As we produce by sexual reporduction and not some asexual means (eg budding), the first instance in which a cell can become a human is the zygote. Neither gamete can proliferate into anything, much less a complex organism such as a human.

*With regards to the statement about the continuum of life, again what matters is what we mean when we say life. We as humans have for the most part agreed that we can destroy any life as we see fit, except for human life. Hence the only ways to agree that abortion is an morally sound procedure is:
A)If we believe in the preservation of human life, and the fetus or whatever composition is determined to be not human;
or
B)We do not find human life to any more valuable than the other forms of life we destroy on a daily basis.

**Regarding the "religious argument for abortion," I do not believe that any relatively mainstream interpretation of the Western religions would warrant such an argument. If so, it would logically follow that we should all kill ourselves or be killed as early as possible in order to join the Creator. For the most part, I think it can be shown that most people that subscribe to the Western religions either believe that the life on Earth is a gift from God that should not be wasted in vain, and or that our primary purpose on Earth is to cultivate our souls (see "soul building" as it relates to sin and free will).

[95fbirdkid]

Originally posted by Skapimp:
If you're for abortion in certain cases... you think abortions are great for certain cases, which means you're for abortions for certain cases.. which means you're for abortion.

If I'm for abortions, doesn't mean I'm for them for everything.

It's just semantics... I know... stupid to argue about.

true but not everyone who is pro-choice is pro-abortion in any case. I am alwasy against abortion, but I am for the right of the parents to choose on their own. I dont think its right, but I dont think its up to me to choose for everyone

[memphis_raines]

Originally posted by Stefan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by memphis_raines:
Stefan, you talk about the "religious" people and that death is a blessing. The reason the religious people are against abortion is because they have enough sense to know it's wrong to f*cking kill people. I agree with you on a lot of things, but not here.

Then don't kill sperm cells before they fertilize the egg either. </font>[/QUOTE]This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, and there are a bunch of you saying it. Why are we discussing what happens to sperm and eggs? That's not when an abortion happens, you dumb a$$es. We are talking about after it is known to a woman that she is carrying another human being inside of her and the decision of whether or not to heartlessly slaughter her child just because it might be an "inconvenience".

[GrigoryRasputin]

who the hell said "abortions are great"?

Well, I did but theyre only great to control populaton growth.

[TMGSIX]

Let me ask you anti-abortion people a question:

If your wife was pregnant with your child and the doctors inform both of you that if your wife continues with the pregnancy and chooses to give birth, that she will lose her life in the process, but the baby will survive. This is not a hypothetical situation, many parents have been faced with this decision. So, do you let your wife die, or do you abort the fetus?

[Red V6 Raider]

Anyone that thinks kids are an "inconvenience" are way off base. Having a child is a drastic life altering change. It's not the same as getting a pet. To be a responsible parent, you will have to change your whole life and sacrifice almost all of your time for you child. You would have to quit your job if you're not lucky enough to have some family support. Get government assistance. And all that just to probably have your kid **** up and probably do the exact same thing and start the cycle over again. I believe in people living their own lives, and not living for their kids lives until they have lived themself.

[maxcamaro]

Originally posted by GrigoryRasputin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Skapimp:
For everyone on this board so pro-abortion, it's great that you're all voting for Bush, since he's all for it :rolleyes:

Its not ****ing pro-abortion - get that through your head. Its pro-choice. </font>[/QUOTE]no your wrong...its pro abortion the people who have abortions and support abortions want you to call it pro choice. Like instead of calling it "killing a baby by sucking its brains out" its called "partial birth abortion"

[GrigoryRasputin]

Originally posted by maxcamaro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GrigoryRasputin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Skapimp:
For everyone on this board so pro-abortion, it's great that you're all voting for Bush, since he's all for it :rolleyes:

Its not ****ing pro-abortion - get that through your head. Its pro-choice. </font>[/QUOTE]no your wrong...its pro abortion the people who have abortions and support abortions want you to call it pro choice. Like instead of calling it "killing a baby by sucking its brains out" its called "partial birth abortion" </font>[/QUOTE]Ah yes, the drastically uninformed rearing their ugly head again.

A.) I am pro-choice but anti-abortion - go ahead and tell me I support abortions.. but that doesnt make it true.
B.) Its not called partial-birth abortion, its called dialation and extraction.

[maxcamaro]

Originally posted by GrigoryRasputin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by maxcamaro:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GrigoryRasputin:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Skapimp:
For everyone on this board so pro-abortion, it's great that you're all voting for Bush, since he's all for it :rolleyes:

Its not ****ing pro-abortion - get that through your head. Its pro-choice. </font>[/QUOTE]no your wrong...its pro abortion the people who have abortions and support abortions want you to call it pro choice. Like instead of calling it "killing a baby by sucking its brains out" its called "partial birth abortion" </font>[/QUOTE]Ah yes, the drastically uninformed rearing their ugly head again.

A.) I am pro-choice but anti-abortion - go ahead and tell me I support abortions.. but that doesnt make it true.
B.) Its not called partial-birth abortion, its called dialation and extraction. </font>[/QUOTE]A. You support abortions
B. so what if it is called dialaton and extraction its still a diversion from what really happens in an abortion

[HAZ-Matt]

I'm pro-choice, anti-abortion as well.

There are only three positions that people have:

1. Pro-choice, pro-abortion

2. Pro-choice, anti-abortion

3. Anti-choice, anti-abortion