Whats up with toyota?

[Fredless]

ding ding ding. Stefan hit the nail on the freaking head.

If there had been an imported "pony" car, the mustang and f-body would probably have been of much higher quality. Or was there an imported pony car and I just never knew it (on the mass scale)?

It's sad really, Detroit really needs to get their **** to gether. I heard on CNN a few months back, the big 3 are now 1)GM, 2)Toyota and 3)Ford based on overall sales. :eek:

[Loochy88]

Originally posted by Fredless:


If there had been an imported "pony" car, the mustang and f-body would probably have been of much higher quality.

most likely, but the point is that there isnt. nothing at all "sports car" will be coming out of toyota if they drop those two cars. i guess the new scion car (the one that doesnt look like a plastic boxcar) could be considered somewhat sporty, but its just not the same. they may be making money (theyre a business after all and thats what theyre trying to do) but unless they bring back the supra theyll be totally off the sports car radar. your car might be great shane, but i could go buy a new supra right now like i could go buy a new firebird. if nothing else they could at least build a overpriced exotic car to carry the image (ala ford's GT).

Originally posted by Stefan:


Toyota is in the car business to make money, not to please people who complain about their lack of a sports car division.

clearly, its a shame, but its not a bad business decision.

[ November 14, 2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Loochy88 ]

[MTMike]

Originally posted by Stefan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MTMike:
Their "super tough mighty" Tundra is a barely a half ton :rolleyes:

Actually, the Tundra is a slap in the face for domestics and a much-needed one at that. GM, Ford, and Chevy trucks had been seriously sucking in the late 90's... then out of nowhere in model year 2000 comes the Tundra, Japan's first mass-produced V8, and it sells like hotcakes.

Notice the Big Three domestics all of a sudden scrambled and went back to the drawing board in 2001 and 2002? They had become so comfortable in their redneck-catering market base that they didn't bother making a product of real quality. Tundra changed that. In fact, Tundra's success was so profound that Nissan followed suit and in 2004 introduced the Titan.

Competition breeds quality... and when domestics completely own a market share, quality sucks. Import competition forces domestics to get their **** together.

The Tundra is a fantastic full-size truck. Incredible reliability ratings, great power-to-weight ratio, available 6-speed manual, excellent crash safety, torquey enough to haul a 4-horse trailer. Granted, if you're towing a moving truck or some other industrial type of equipment then yes, you'll want a domestic turbo diesel crew cab dualie... but for the majority of consumers in the market for base-line trucks (F-150, Silverado, Ram 1500) Tundra is a very attractive alternative. Its here to stay.

Also, what was that about Toyota trucks in general sucking? The T-100 (aka Tacoma) has been a 4x4 champion for decades. The rivalry is Jeep vs. 'yota. No serious off-roader would even think of anything else. There is no other truck out there that's easier to jack up and swap engines with than the Tacoma. You bring me your overweight, overpriced, fat cow jacked up Dodge... and I'll blow it away in any offroad competition with a T-100. That and it'll run 500,000 miles with an oil change every five years or so while your Dodge/Chevy/Ford falls apart after 100k. </font>[/QUOTE]That's my point - their top-of-the-line, biggest available truck competes only with the bottom of the line, lowest end D/C/F trucks. Until Toyota can compete with the 2500/3500 series domesic trucks, I'll not be impressed. Half-ton trucks are for the average joe who wants a family hauler with a bed to tow a boat on the weekend. Heavy-Duty pickups are for those who use trucks for what they're designed for - towing 5-7 tons of scthuff... loading 2800lbs into the bed while doing it. You hook a 4 horse trailer up to a Tundra and yeah, you might get it down the road, but you wont be towing it safely. If you were lucky enough to find someone who will stop laughing at you long enough to put a 5th wheel hitch into the bed of a Tundra, the minute you drop that trailer onto the Tundra, You'd bottom out the suspension.... 5th wheels that size have a pin weight of over 1500lbs - some more. Get it on the highway and you'd be able to hold 65mph with it, until the slighetst hill, then look out, pull right, put your flashers on and get out a book because you'll just crawl up the hill.

In fact, my brothers friend has an '01 Tundra and he towed my brothers S-10 blazer (3000lbs) on a car hauler (2000lbs) a couple hundreed miles and it struggled like it had a 5th wheel behind it. 5000lbs is not much weight, and that truck was a sorry excuse for a tow rig.

Our 2500 Dodge pulling 8,000lbs of mudbogger and trailer struggles too because of the 5.9L gas engine and 3.55 gears. Because it's a 3/4 ton the rear only squats 3-4 inches, and it actually rides smoother with 1500lbs on the hitch, but the wind resistance of a 10' tall rig and a GVW (Truck, combined trailer weight) of almost 14,000lbs that gasser is adequate at best. If I had a Tundra I'd be lucky to move that rig 45mph down the road.

Now a 6 wheeled 3500 with a detuned Medium-duty grade Diesel putting out over 600ftlbs of torque with a bed load carrying capacity of over 3000lbs will pull that trailer like it's not even back there. Come to the hill, the tranny downshifts, the engine jumps to 3000rpms, the turbo screams and you pull the hill with the cruise control still on....

I'm sorry, but in the "Real" truck sector, Toyota (and Nissan with their "Titan" :rolleyes: ) Don't compete. They're half-ton trucks. They may be more reliable, they may be worthy competition for the half-ton domestic market, but they're nothing more than that.

I will not own anything lighter than a 2500 again. The next vehicle I will own will be a chipped 3500 Dodge with the Cummins 610 diesel. It will run high 13's in the 1/4 mile, and still tow 17,500lbs on the weekend.

-Mike

[ November 14, 2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: MTMike ]

[SirShaun]

Supra is the best thing to ever come out of Toyota. Ahhh What i would do with a Twin Turbo Supra...

[jc Kyle]

you'll have to decide which turbo to stick your penis in

[LD]

what helps the toyota profit margin is the fact that they pay their employess jack**** and the Japan banks fight to keep their economy sucking and inflation high so that their $25,000 American dollars come in with alot of yen. They pay their people the same yet are making huge profit.
There was an article interviewing a Japanese man and he said it would take him a week to earn enough money to take his family to KFC and a year to earn enough to buy a 26in color tv.
That would suck.
I work at a gas station and can buy KFC anytime I want.

[95fbirdkid]

Trucks are an american thing, like Mike said, their top of the line competes w/ our bottem of the line. nothing special in my eyes

[WishIHad$$$]

Originally posted by MTMike:
I will not own anything lighter than a 2500 again. The next vehicle I will own will be a chipped 3500 Dodge with the Cummins 610 diesel. It will run high 13's in the 1/4 mile, and still tow 17,500lbs on the weekend.

-Mike

[img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img] Toyota trucks
[img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img] Nissan trucks

[MTMike]

Here's some numbers to compare the truck lines. As you can see the imports dont' hold a candle to the 2500 & 3500 series - especially in payload.

Towing Capacities:
05 Toyota Tundra V6: 4800
05 Toyota Tundra V8: 7200

05 Nissan Titan 5.6V8: 9,400

05 Dodge 1500 V6: 3750
05 Dodge 1500 4.7V8: 7700
05 Dodge 1500 5.7 Hemi: 9200

05 Dodge 2500 5.7 Hemi: 11,000
05 Dodge 2500 5.9 Cummins: 13,000

05 Dodge 3500 5.7 Hemi: 10,600
05 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins: 15,800

05 Chevy/GMC 1500 4.3V6: 4,100
05 Chevy/GMC 1500 4.8V8: 6,000
05 Chevy/GMC 1500 5.3V8: 9,000

05 Chevy/GMC 2500 6.0V8:10,600
05 Chevy/GMC 2500 8.1V8:12,000
05 Chevy/GMC 2500 6.6 Duramax Diesel: 12,000

05 Chevy/GMC 3500 6.0: 9,800
05 Chevy/GMC 3500 8.1V8:12,000
05 Chevy/GMC 3500 6.6 Duramax Diesel: 12,000

05 Ford F150 4.6V8: 6,700
05 Ford F150 5.4V8: 9,500

05 Ford F250 5.4 V8: 12,500
05 Ford F250 6.8L V10: 12,500
05 Ford 6.0 Powerstroke: 12,500

05 Ford F350 5.4V8: 16,700
05 Ford F350 6.8V10: 16,700
05 Ford F350 Powerstroke: 16,700

Payload (Load carrying)
05 Toyota Tundra: 1,500
05 Nissan Titan: 1,200 (thats less than the Chevy Colorado compact, Ford Ranger and Dodge Dakota)
05 Dodge 1500: 1,750
05 Dodge 2500: 2,200
05 Dodge 3500: 5,100
05 Chevy/GMC 1500: 1,800
05 Chevy/GMC 2500: 4,000
05 Chevy/GMC 3500: 5,500
05 Ford F150 4.6: 1,760
05 Ford F150 5.4: 2,670
05 Ford F250: 2,900
05 Ford F350: 5,300

(Source: Four Wheeler Magazine, Dec 04)

Legend: 150/1500 = 1/2 Ton, 250/2500 = 3/4 Ton, 350/3500 = 1 Ton, ...

Doesn't look like much competition to me...

[ November 15, 2004, 01:07 AM: Message edited by: MTMike ]

[jc Kyle]

have they even attempted to make anything with bigger payload than the titan? stupid comparisons.. they compete very well against the trucks they're supposed to compete against

[camaro97]

from the mouth of a toyota tech... wait till 07 and 08...

the tundra will be in the same market as the F250 and 2500HD insted of the small full sized truck line... 08 will bing a desiel option...

matt

[BLLDOGG]

07-08 is a long way away. i dont care what a car company will do it 10years. i want what i want now!

[95Batmobile]

Damn it is still 1997?

**** :(

[ARTFART]

I still like Titans , I dont care who says what about them . ;)

[Dominic]

maybe some of us actually like getting good fuel economy with a truck. Most of us dont need 4WD either, and some of us just want a little light truck to play in the mud with at most. Those who actually need a truck to haul 11,000lbs (like my girlfriend) can easily go buy one and yes only americans make them. However, for the 1500 class of trucks, Id rather own a Nissan Frontier to save on fuel and tow my little 4,000lb boat to the lake every weekend [img]smile.gif[/img]