When the hell gm will release the new Camaro

[3.4 slow to go]

keep telling yourself that. And the covette, using a more powerful version of the same engine is realy an ultra-clean running car. [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img] oh, [img]graemlins/slap.gif[/img]

[99v6cam]

believe what you want, in the last years of the f-body they couldnt keep them on the showroom floor

[3.4 slow to go]

or on the production line

[Fredless]

Originally posted by 3.4 slow to go:
unions ARE sucking up more money than they should,
SUVs/Trucks ARE a cash cow, easier to produce a box than a curved vehicle
If more people bought the f-body, and it was priced better, it would still be around

did I miss anything? didn't think so.

And who are you to judge? I bet if you were in one of their posistions you wouldn't be saying that. Those guys don't start out at those rates at all. But its the easy way for you to place the blame on things.

[Everglades W68]

I'll keep driving my Firebird until it becomes too unreliable and too expensive to use on a daily basis. Right now, it runs and looks great.

Whenever the time comes to replace it, I'll most likely get a new Mustang. When it came to buying new cars, my wife and I had bought all Pontiacs up until now. That does not seem likely going forward.

[3.4 slow to go]

Who am I to judge?

I'm a consumer that has seen GM car prices rise over the years while the competition has offered comprable products for less with same if not higher quality.

[Camarorulz]

Originally posted by Fredless:
That is the BIGGEST cop out EVER. Yep, lets just blame everything on the unions...lets neglect to mention that we engineer crap, and we don't stand by our customers.

GM doesn't engineer crap...they make good cars, my dad just bought a brand new Monte, very good reliable car. I have an '02 Camaro, has yet to give me any problems. GM's problems ALL stem from the high debts they owe to retirees because the UAW won't renegotiate their contract. They also have high health care costs. If they don't watch out the UAW will ruin GM, then no one gains. Yeah, the unions are so great. :rolleyes: You know what I say? **** the unions.

[ July 02, 2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Camarorulz ]

[Camarorulz]

99v6cam: The f-body was cancelled because the factory in St. Therese was producing somewhere around 125,000 cars a year when it had a capacity of 250,000. The fixed costs on that thing were monstrous, and the sales of the f-body didn't justify them. Couldn't keep them on the showroom floor? Whatever, the Mustang had the market: it outsold Firebird and Camaro combined by a large margin. The f-body could have been redesigned to meet side impact crash test ratings, but it wasn't worth it because of the low cost effectiveness of producing the f-body.

Are you really so naive that you think GM would discontinue a car that you claim sold very well simply because of side impact rating and emissions? If the car was as popular and best-selling as you claim then GM would have redesigned it to meet the standards.

Oh, I'd also like to point out that they couldn't move production of the f-body to another factory because of an agreement with, guess who? the UAW in which the Camaro/Firebird could ONLY be produced at the plant in St. Therese. There's another thing to thank the damned unions for.

[ July 02, 2005, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Camarorulz ]

[kinetic]

OWNED!

it's pure economics; we don't engineer crap, we just want to make an extra buck at the expense of others, including the employees, and when we find that we can't, we make "budget cuts" across the board.

I witness it first-hand, working for a plant that manufactures ECMs, GPSs, and anti-theft devices for Ford, Chrysler, BMW, GM, Volvo, and Honda; I've seen many long-time employees get screwed out of benefits, and engineers get walked-out without notice...but hey, it's how they stay competitive :rolleyes:

and yeah... **** unions.

[ July 02, 2005, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: kinetic ]

[3.4 slow to go]

Unions DID have a place once, but time, and economics are passing them by.

[Fredless]

Hmm well Ford and Chrysler seem to not have a problem with that.

Yep you guys sure owned me... [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

3.4 slow to go...wow how many union jobs have you held? Before I debate with your further, I'm legitimately asking you before I assume you're just an outsider blaming it all on the UAW. The majority of the people who ***** about unions don't know the real story and have never held a union job themselves and are brainwashed that its "normal" to work OT for free and get paid that 7.00 an hour with no benefits.

You guys keep crying that your precious company engineers wonderful stuff and that your cars will never be bought back. I've heard numerous mechanics, included my friends dad who did work for Autoway Chevrolet stating he would NEVER buy a GM product again...the recalls and the outrageous crap that went wrong with them all the time. He went back to work for Nissan. But its the Union's fault the cars break and are engineered poorly.

I will agree that the UAW does try to bleed GM too much and it was foolish for them to insist to only make the f-car at St. Therese...who ultimately got the shaft in the end on that deal? Yep the UAW workers.

My point is that its outside jealousy of most "college" educated people who are stuck in some dead in office job with their hard earned degrees, making 35k a year and then they see people that bolt on parts on an assembly line making 50k a year that don't even have a diploma. Hell, I see this at UPS. I just made straight A's this past term and when family members ask me what I want to do when I get out of school, I say I want to drive a truck. Then why the hell are you in school? Because to keep my parents happy and you can never waste a college degree. I'll make the same money as the guy that is a high school drop out driving the other routes. Our package car drivers have to do a lot of time before they start making that good money, same thing in the UAW. They didn't start out making 25-30 dollars an hour bolting on parts at some mindless job.

I gurantee if any of you worked in a union job and everything was communist based (yep, I'll admit it, thats what it is, it does you NO good to give 110%) you would not be making these comments.

And... its the UAW's fault GM uses Dexcool too right? [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

[ July 02, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Fredless ]

[3.4 slow to go]

Nope, never held a union job, and never want to. I like being able to make my own decisions, thank you.

My job is 24/7 so don't whine to me about "overtime".

[Johnny Ray]

I doubt if it would have any impact on my life whether or not the Camaro returned.

:cool:

[Fredless]

Originally posted by 3.4 slow to go:
Nope, never held a union job, and never want to. I like being able to make my own decisions, thank you.

My job is 24/7 so don't whine to me about "overtime".

LOL!! [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] Oh nose I got told.

Remember to use Fedex for your shipping needs, I'm bleeding UPS dry myself. [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img]

Oh, and you're welcome. I'm done with this, you're so unbelieveably arrogant in your view points I can't even debate with you...so keep getting defensive. You're right, heres your bone.

[ July 03, 2005, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Fredless ]

[2001V6Power]

wow i wouldn't think it would go this far. lol anyway how about them dodgers