Religion.. or.. morals persay

[shock_core]

Originally posted by dz:
Eee, I'll bite this one. As far as the bible never being proven wrong; doesn't the Bible state that the world is 6000 years old? How do dinosaurs relate to this picture? What about carbon dating which has proven certain pieces are over tens of thousands of years old?

What makes your religion anymore 'correct' than any other religion? They're all full of errors and contradictions? Do you not realize that the book you follow has been retranslated hundreds of times? Do you not realize that it's documented in history that a chunk of your book was rewritten to better suit the Romans?

You say it's clear that your ancestors were not ameobas. I say that you have absolute zero proof that there is a god. There is no hard evidence whatsoever that proves in any way whatsoever that there exists an all supreme being. There is proof of evolution though; in fact there is lots of proof. There might be gaps, yes, but we're working on that.

Saying intelligent design is a logical explanation is like accepting it when someone tells you that they have a 1000 horsepower car without them showing you anything. They simply write up a piece of paper saying 'Hi, I have 1000 horsepower.' and you simply accept it.

Saying evolution is a logical explanation is like accepting it when someone tells you that they have a 1000 horsepower car without them showing you every single piece of the car. They show you bits and pieces here and there. A supercharger here, a huge engine here, a nitrous bottle there. They don't show you every single piece though and leave it up to you to find the rest. Every once in a while you find a new piece that makes that 1000 horsepower seems more legit, but you still don't have the full picture.


(Again, I don't mean this to get personal. I only mean this as a debate and if it is requested, I shall stop.) [/QB]

^^^^x2


Yes, you cannot disprove God, navyblue2000. But tell me how you prove God? What hard physical evidence do you have?

Tha Bible isn't one. God did not sign as the author. There is no dedication to Christians of Earth. Many people beleiving/doing something does not make it true.

Please, feel free to prove me wrong. :D

(I don't mean this to get personal. I only mean this as a debate and if it is requested, I shall stop too.)

/just curious
//atheist
///I DO NOT mean to OFFEND

[Resident_Geek]

Originally posted by FirebirdGT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SpeedingFirebird:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by FirebirdGT:
There is only One Power,

The greeks fealt there was an entire set of gawds, Zeus, Poisidon (sp), etc. Maybe THEY were right, and all modern religions are wrong. How would we know?</font>[/QUOTE]True to a point. What you are talking about was the "outer" religion. The "inner" or "sacred mysteries" taught that there was only One. The "gods" are aspects of the One, used to teach the masses through stories. </font>[/QUOTE]Source? I've never heard even a vague reference to an "inner" Greco-Roman religion. The leaders at the heart of the religion had stopped believing the religion they perpetuated by 200 BC or so.

[navyblue2000]

Well, let's take a view here. From a lot of research, thought, etc - conversing with different people over a few years... Here's a little tidbit of evidence, physically, that there's truth in the bible.

In revelations, John talks about the Beast, the Mark of the Best, and the Shadow of the Beast.

A lot of people want to consider the "mark of the beast" to be some computer chip that will be implanted in to people at birth, that will be required of them to function in society - buy things, ID, etc.

Let's look at a different view. Take for instance, the Roman Empire. Let's use that for "the beast". Look what Rome did - they conquered - at times they did their best to squelch Christianity - they HUNG christians on crosses, set them on fire, to light the road that led to Rome. Pretty awful thing to do, no?

THe Mark of the beast - Emperor Nero, while he wasn't incredibly infamous, he was ONE of the few Roman emperors who really put the boot down on Christians - for the most part, during the period of the Empire, it was not as anti-christian as it was during Nero. Nero, though, imposed sanctions against Christians - as in, no roman citizen was to do business with Christians. at all. The mark? I'm getting there. The bible talks about the mark being six hundred, three score, and six. or, 666. What was on the other side of the coin that nero's head was on during his reign as emperor? yep, 666. In society, you have to have currency to function - do business, buy things, etc. But if you don't have the money, you cannot function.

Shadow of the beast - this is almost self explanatory, and I won't spend a lot of time with it. The Roman Catholic Church. Look at the catholic church in modern times - they've added/taken books (american catholic version I believe), and have basically made a mockery out of Christianity (child molesting priests, anyone?). Their minister figures cannot marry, whereas the bible calls for CHristian ministers to be married and have a family.


Now, that's just my well thought out opinion, that I've put together and conversed with people over years, typed up in ten minutes. I could go into more detail.

As for more physical evidence...the shroud that Christ was buried in being found? I forget the name of it.

[navyblue2000]

oh...i don't mean to offend any catholics.

[jola]

Originally posted by navyblue2000:
child molesting priests, anyone

there was one of those in the church across the street from my house. i always thought he was a nice guy.

my $ .02 -

i'm not positive, but i don't think the bible mentions adam eating an "apple," but rather a piece of fruit. perhaps its a different version that someone uses or something.

where does the bible mention the age of the earth? i haven't looked into that too much, but i don't think science's estimates are too far off. i think this b/c of the creation story of the bible. god created everything in 6 days...blah blah blah, you know how it goes, but god never defines the length of a day beyond the coming and going of light and darkness i believe. how long was the first day? no idea. many people assume its 24 hours, just b/c it's called a "day," but i don't know if that's true. i can't remember what the actual greek is, but i think there's something lost in translation.

i suppose you can't prove that god exists. for the scientists on this board, don't get your hopes up. the bible isn't a science book, and its purpose was never to be "proven" or "disproven." i don't quite understand how a scinetist in particular, who knows the physical world better then the average man, can observe what's around him and not assume there is a creator, but that's not important. science and religion are completely different things.

[FirebirdGT]

Originally posted by Resident_Geek:
Source? I've never heard even a vague reference to an "inner" Greco-Roman religion. The leaders at the heart of the religion had stopped believing the religion they perpetuated by 200 BC or so.

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/...d/me-wtst3.htm

Here's a quick start.

[SpeedingFirebird]

Originally posted by FirebirdGT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SpeedingFirebird:
My wife (a church goer) says the bible has many erros and contradictions. Theologists have a ball with people who take its word direclty. Her priest acknowledges the fact there are errors (hence the apple example he gave.

True, but it doesn't matter because the Bible was not meant to be read literaly. You need to look for the deeper spiritual truth. </font>[/QUOTE]Aye, I agree with you 100%. I was addressing another comment which was "the bible has never been proven wrong, prophecies were fulfilled and the Bible is inerrent." by Dv8F.

///I DO NOT mean to OFFEND

x2

[Mighty Thor]

This is the only passage you will see in the Bible about dinosaurs in the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called ‘behemoth,’ is described as ‘the chief of the ways of God,’ perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree. Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees.

There's also ancient proof that some Egyptians used dinosaurs to build some of their structures. According to the description I read a couple of years ago that the dinosaur they were using was either Triceretops or Stegasaurus.

I could be wrong about the state. But I think in Montana, they discovered numerous footprints of humans along with dinosaurs.

They also found evidence of plants and trees supposedly gone before man existed or but were discovered to be in the same layer of soil as man. Meaning the same timeline. They also found Heme in dinosaurs which scientist argue shouldn't be there because they are 360 million or so years old.

In early Americas, aborigenis have told stories of how their ancestors slayed a huge lizard. In the Orient, their ancestors told stories about killing off large lizard. Both cultures never met but they were telling stories about the T-rex. Of course in the Orient they added fire to the lizard to represent ferocity.

The Bible was not written as a scientific book. Man did not even grasp concepts of science like we do today. But there are implication. The Pentateuch written by Moses was more written for his people to get themselves back with God, the Creator. God was not viewed as all loving back then but rather as a Creator and a Punisher. It's only in Jesus time did we realize that God is all loving. Of course in his time people couldn't grasp that. And a lot of us still can't grasp it even today.

Eventhough Moses wrote the book of Genesis, he is not the originator. It's more traditional, Moses just put it in writing for his people.

We all know that there's no day or night in the Universe. But they didn't back then. But Moses did it this way so that one day called Sabbath would be devoted to God only. The 7 days originated from the Roman Calendar which many cultures back then followed. Again, Moses goal is to bring his people back to God and therefore reserving one day of devotion only to HIM.

By the way, the Apple is not the forbidden fruit. This false fruit stem from the western tradition. Because apple was a very popular fruit and it was often used by churches to give as an example.

OK, I'll shut up now. Because this is another debate that's never ending. Very interesting though. Somebody open up another topic, "Creation vs. Evolution."

[Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
This is the only passage you will see in the Bible about dinosaurs in the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called ‘behemoth,’ is described as ‘the chief of the ways of God,’ perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree. Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees.

There's also ancient proof that some Egyptians used dinosaurs to build some of their structures. According to the description I read a couple of years ago that the dinosaur they were using was either Triceretops or Stegasaurus.

I could be wrong about the state. But I think in Montana, they discovered numerous footprints of humans along with dinosaurs.

They also found evidence of plants and trees supposedly gone before man existed or but were discovered to be in the same layer of soil as man. Meaning the same timeline. They also found Heme in dinosaurs which scientist argue shouldn't be there because they are 360 million or so years old.

In early Americas, aborigenis have told stories of how their ancestors slayed a huge lizard. In the Orient, their ancestors told stories about killing off large lizard. Both cultures never met but they were telling stories about the T-rex. Of course in the Orient they added fire to the lizard to represent ferocity.

The Bible was not written as a scientific book. Man did not even grasp concepts of science like we do today. But there are implication. The Pentateuch written by Moses was more written for his people to get themselves back with God, the Creator. God was not viewed as all loving back then but rather as a Creator and a Punisher. It's only in Jesus time did we realize that God is all loving. Of course in his time people couldn't grasp that. And a lot of us still can't grasp it even today.

Eventhough Moses wrote the book of Genesis, he is not the originator. It's more traditional, Moses just put it in writing for his people.

We all know that there's no day or night in the Universe. But they didn't back then. But Moses did it this way so that one day called Sabbath would be devoted to God only. The 7 days originated from the Roman Calendar which many cultures back then followed. Again, Moses goal is to bring his people back to God and therefore reserving one day of devotion only to HIM.

By the way, the Apple is not the forbidden fruit. This false fruit stem from the western tradition. Because apple was a very popular fruit and it was often used by churches to give as an example.

OK, I'll shut up now. Because this is another debate that's never ending. Very interesting though. Somebody open up another topic, "Creation vs. Evolution."

It's nice to know I shut everybody up. Yeh..Yeah..whoose the dah man!!

I wasn't called Thor for nothing, and yes I am a god. :D

Just messing...very good discussion though.

[Tyler]

Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mighty Thor:
This is the only passage you will see in the Bible about dinosaurs in the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called ‘behemoth,’ is described as ‘the chief of the ways of God,’ perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree. Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees.

There's also ancient proof that some Egyptians used dinosaurs to build some of their structures. According to the description I read a couple of years ago that the dinosaur they were using was either Triceretops or Stegasaurus.

I could be wrong about the state. But I think in Montana, they discovered numerous footprints of humans along with dinosaurs.

They also found evidence of plants and trees supposedly gone before man existed or but were discovered to be in the same layer of soil as man. Meaning the same timeline. They also found Heme in dinosaurs which scientist argue shouldn't be there because they are 360 million or so years old.

In early Americas, aborigenis have told stories of how their ancestors slayed a huge lizard. In the Orient, their ancestors told stories about killing off large lizard. Both cultures never met but they were telling stories about the T-rex. Of course in the Orient they added fire to the lizard to represent ferocity.

The Bible was not written as a scientific book. Man did not even grasp concepts of science like we do today. But there are implication. The Pentateuch written by Moses was more written for his people to get themselves back with God, the Creator. God was not viewed as all loving back then but rather as a Creator and a Punisher. It's only in Jesus time did we realize that God is all loving. Of course in his time people couldn't grasp that. And a lot of us still can't grasp it even today.

Eventhough Moses wrote the book of Genesis, he is not the originator. It's more traditional, Moses just put it in writing for his people.

We all know that there's no day or night in the Universe. But they didn't back then. But Moses did it this way so that one day called Sabbath would be devoted to God only. The 7 days originated from the Roman Calendar which many cultures back then followed. Again, Moses goal is to bring his people back to God and therefore reserving one day of devotion only to HIM.

By the way, the Apple is not the forbidden fruit. This false fruit stem from the western tradition. Because apple was a very popular fruit and it was often used by churches to give as an example.

OK, I'll shut up now. Because this is another debate that's never ending. Very interesting though. Somebody open up another topic, "Creation vs. Evolution."

It's nice to know I shut everybody up. Yeh..Yeah..whoose the dah man!!

I wasn't called Thor for nothing, and yes I am a god. :D

Just messing...very good discussion though. </font>[/QUOTE]haha u's a fool..

But i DID post after you saying...

"okay i totally lost interest in this topic"

but it got deleted..

Lame [img]tongue.gif[/img]

But this was a good discussion.. one of the better ones i've seen on this board ina while

[ September 30, 2005, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Tyler ]

[dz]

It looks like this discussion is dying.

Anyways, I hope no hard feelings came out of this. It was a good debate while it lasted.

I look forward to our next one [img]smile.gif[/img]