God, the thread

[ReodDai]

Isn't it a jewish believe to not name god?

[wannabe]

Originally posted by ReodDai:
Basically put it this way. Before religion people still lived by what they considered right. Even with religion people still live by what they consider right the only difference is religion as become a part of the culture. Therefore; religion is cultural relativism ;) You may not want to belive it ... but it is. If you denounced the jewish religion today would you really change as a person? You may not worship anymore but what else about you would change? Nothing. You would still be the exact same person your culture told you to be. Even the religious part of your culture would have a say =)


Main Entry: cultural relativism
Function: noun
Definition: the concept that the importance of a particular cultural idea varies from one society or societal subgroup to another, the view that ethical and moral standards are relative to what a particular society or culture believes to be good/bad, right/wrong


cul·ture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klchr)
n.

The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.

I'll concede the cultural relativism point, but not moral relativism. There are things that are simply right or wrong, good or evil, regardless of personal beliefs. Were I to denounce Judaism tomorrow, I would change as a person. Not only would I no longer worship, but a significant number of things that I currently find immoral would cease to be so. People who give up religion typically engage in activities that are immoral simply because they now feel that they can. I would also lose a significant part of my identity. Judaism is much more a way of life than is Christianity. Our traditions and customs permeate our lives.

[3.4 [deployed]]

Originally posted by wannabe:
The difference between Christians and Jews is significantly larger than that between various sects of Christianity.

never said it was

[wannabe]

Originally posted by ReodDai:
Isn't it a jewish believe to not name god?

Actually, there are many, many names for G-d in Judaism, we just don't write them down, we use euphamisms or abbreviations. Some of the names of G-d are said to have great power.

[ReodDai]

Judaism is intergrated into your culture. Even if you denounced your religion, if your family didn't disown you then they certainly would if got rid of its code of morals ;) My point is those morals are tied into your culture just because you can denounce the religion doesn't mean you can denounce your culture.

Yes people will tend to do things that they couldn't before if given the opportunity. However for most this will grow old extremely quick and they will once again want the security of their culture. Yet another reason why most individuals cannot let go of their religion. Most lack the willpower to do so even if you proved to them without a doubt their religion is wrong.

[ReodDai]

hehe you ever see the movie pi? Jewish people in that movie were looking for the true name of god, they knew it was like 218(?) characters long. Awesome movie if you haven't seen it go watch it.

[wannabe]

Originally posted by ReodDai:
hehe you ever see the movie pi? Jewish people in that movie were looking for the true name of god, they knew it was like 218(?) characters long. Awesome movie if you haven't seen it go watch it.

I LOVE that movie!

[ReodDai]

Haha that movie is just plain freaky. However it is very interesting. Also interesting in the fact that most people that see it find it boring or don't understand it at all.

REMINDER: READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE YOU JOIN IN THIS TOPIC!

[wannabe]

Originally posted by ReodDai:
Judaism is intergrated into your culture. Even if you denounced your religion, if your family didn't disown you then they certainly would if got rid of its code of morals ;) My point is those morals are tied into your culture just because you can denounce the religion doesn't mean you can denounce your culture.

Yes people will tend to do things that they couldn't before if given the opportunity. However for most this will grow old extremely quick and they will once again want the security of their culture. Yet another reason why most individuals cannot let go of their religion. Most lack the willpower to do so even if you proved to them without a doubt their religion is wrong.

My morals are indeed tied to my culture, my society, and my upbringing as a Jew. However, that last point is the key. Had I been raised in a home in this same culture but without religion, who knows how I might have turned out. It's really impossible to say. But the majority of my personal moral code comes not from Jewish culture but from Jewish religion.

[ReodDai]

The jewish culture is the jewish religion. The morals associated with each are exactly the same. ;)

[wannabe]

Originally posted by ReodDai:
Haha that movie is just plain freaky. However it is very interesting. Also interesting in the fact that most people that see it find it boring or don't understand it at all.

REMINDER: READ ALL THE POSTS BEFORE YOU JOIN IN THIS TOPIC!

Another interesting point is that those little tricks that the rabbi does with the Hebrew language (i.e. the numerical values of "mother" and "father" equals the numerical value of "child") are all true. There are many more like that... like he says, that's just kid's stuff.

[ReodDai]

Yea that part was awesome. Didn't know any of that.

[wannabe]

Originally posted by ReodDai:
The jewish culture is the jewish religion. The morals associated with each are exactly the same. ;)

Untrue. The two are intertwined and related, but not the same. There are many non-observant Jews who live the culture, and many observant Jews who choose to reject the culture (it does have its negative aspects). They play off each other, and I don't believe that either could have come to being without the other, but they are not one in the same.

[ReodDai]

Impossible because their both jews ;) Even you said it yourself

[ July 06, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: ReodDai ]

[98v6]

Originally posted by Timbo1969:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 98v6:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Machiavelli:
Its incredibly ignorant to not believe in a higher being of some sort, which I choose to call God.

Wow, you really hit the nail on the head here. :rolleyes:

There is no logical evidence that one exists. Therefore, it is ignorant to believe it's ignorant not to believe in one. Agnosticism is the only philosophical viewpoint supported by the world we live in, which is basically that God's existence or nonexistance cannot be proven. It doesn't state a stance on whether HE exists because there is no evidence either way, it pretty much just says you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I want.

But, here's a little puzzle in our language. Supposedly, God created the universe. But, universe is pretty much just a term that refers to everything. So, how could God create everything, when the phrase everything has to include him? It is impossible for something to create itself, and even philosophers don't typically delve into where God came from.

To me, the only logical explanation for the existence of the universe is that it's always been there, which could be true of God too, but it seems more likely for an infinite amount of space and time (and probably matter and energy) to simply spawn things because it is constantly changing than for there to be some all-powerful being which controls everything in reality. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with Machiavelli on this one. You have to remember one thing 98v6. You can't apply finite human logic to one who is infinite, ominpotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. Human science will never disprove the existence of God, as for proving his existence, that is done through faith not through scientific studies. Is it God's fault that mankind has lost faith in him? No, it is mankinds own fault, for thinking to highly of it's science, and ability. God put us here to worship him, but gave us free will, as he wants a people who choose to worship him. It's in the Bible..pick it up and read it. Great is the way to destruction, but narrow is the path to righteousness. </font>[/QUOTE]Aha! You have fallen into my trap. Just because you can say that we might not be able to comprehend this being, does that give me a logical reason to believe in him? No, it puts a tiny shadow of doubt into anyone's case who says it can be proven that he does not exist. I don't believe he exists, but i'm not gonna tell anybody else what to think.

Also, contemplate this: If religion is from God, then where did false religions come from? Man, trying to imitate the holy one? Doesn't make sense, becauseif there was one holy religion, everyone who got the idea for religion would follow that one. But, we have lots of different religions, so the best explanation is that it comes from man, and evolved in many different places.