Morality: Religion & Gov't, can they coexist?

[3.4 [deployed]]

(opens himself for flaming by bringing in politics)

Have people not noticed a decline in morality in this country and the "concern" to take God/religion out of the classroom/workplace?

Coinicidence? I think not. When a basic/general morale compass is removed from society, it shows a tangible decline and degradation.

[ReodDai]

Religion and Government should be seperate. Utterly seperate, but its impossible to do.

[wannabe]

They should coexist but act completely seperately. And by completely, I mean that government ought not to mention any sort of god or religion, but at the same time, uphold the rights of its citizens to engage in any religion they want. It seems to me that those who want religion and government intertwined are those who would force their beliefs on others.

[ReodDai]

The hard part is the selfishness of religion and the ability to put its followers into power =) You'd just set up more and more political parties ;)

[ABH]

If you want to see what it is like in a country where religion and government is the same, live in Iran for awhile. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ReodDai]

If its all the same I'd rather live here lol. Don't feel like being beheaded just yet.

[3.4 [deployed]]

I can see a rligions morales being used a guide in making laws for the people, but the laws should not be specific to the religion they were formed from. Of course then yo get some groups complaining that the law is unfair to them, happens no matter what. You can not appease everybody. Fact. You just have to do the best that you canfor the most people, but doesn't mean you screw those who are on either extreme......I'll stop rambling now......

[wannabe]

Originally posted by 3.4 [deployed]:
I can see a rligions morales being used a guide in making laws for the people, but the laws should not be specific to the religion they were formed from. Of course then yo get some groups complaining that the law is unfair to them, happens no matter what. You can not appease everybody. Fact. You just have to do the best that you canfor the most people, but doesn't mean you screw those who are on either extreme......I'll stop rambling now......

Well said.

[mr_man]

Almost all morality uses religion as a basis, a reason "why" it is moral. Without religion, there is no reason for morals. The less religion you have, the less morals you have.

[3.4 [deployed]]

Originally posted by mr_man:
Almost all morality uses religion as a basis, a reason "why" it is moral. Without religion, there is no reason for morals. The less religion you have, the less morals you have.

not necessarily. Being an atheist (scapegoat for this) doesn't mean you have less morals than the next person. It's all in how you were brought up and act upon your upbringing. ALso depends on what set of morlaes you go by.

[Blazing_Firebird]

Though you may say that the less religion you have, the less morals you have, I find this to be completely untrue.

I am a proud liberal, and always will be. I vote split ticket, but my life viwes are purely democratic and liberal.

I am not religious. I believe there is something, but I do not believe in the politics of religion that society has resorted to these days. Religion is just as much politics as government is, and it's sad. I do not follow organized religion, because I don't like the way the majority of the operate.

But because I am not religious (actively), does not mean I do not have morals. I have higher morals than most church-goers in my area, I'd say.

And in addition, you can be un-religious (is that a word, lol), and have morals, because there are certain societal norms and mores (sociology class paid off) that govern society, and there is an absense of religion in many of those.

[98v6]

Originally posted by Blazing_Firebird:
Though you may say that the less religion you have, the less morals you have, I find this to be completely untrue.

I am a proud liberal, and always will be. I vote split ticket, but my life viwes are purely democratic and liberal.

I am not religious. I believe there is something, but I do not believe in the politics of religion that society has resorted to these days. Religion is just as much politics as government is, and it's sad. I do not follow organized religion, because I don't like the way the majority of the operate.

But because I am not religious (actively), does not mean I do not have morals. I have higher morals than most church-goers in my area, I'd say.

And in addition, you can be un-religious (is that a word, lol), and have morals, because there are certain societal norms and mores (sociology class paid off) that govern society, and there is an absense of religion in many of those.

Well said.

One point I'd like to make about the subject on which this thread is based, is that we all love the minority rights that were present in this country until the Republicans got the oval office and congress at the same time, that pretty much boned us liberals, but all the same the general idea in America has always been to protect the minority from getting trampled just because the other guys sent out more flyers. So, why would you allow a religious majority to take power from all of the other minorities? School and religion should remain apart because religion is the one thing that can't be taught in school. That's why we have sunday school, it's always been too big and difficult an issue to teach the kids so why would we start now?

You use morality to lever the church into the school. I'll make the same point I made in the other forum: morality is learned from the culture. So, does that mean we need every good and bad aspect of American culture in the classroom to teach the kids morality? No, that's what books are for. Kids are getting harder for teachers to control, but religion won't stop that. It'll have one of two ends: It will be strictly fundamentalist christianity, or it will be an incoherent mix of every religion (lol, don't they call that hinduism?).

That's all folks.

Edit: I said school a bunch of times, but the same concept applies to the government as a whole.

[Mighty Thor]

Originally posted by 3.4 [deployed]:
(opens himself for flaming by bringing in politics)

Have people not noticed a decline in morality in this country and the "concern" to take God/religion out of the classroom/workplace?

Coinicidence? I think not. When a basic/general morale compass is removed from society, it shows a tangible decline and degradation.

Totally agree. I notice how we are going to that direction already.

[95fbirdkid]

Ideoly they should remain seperate. But there should be morals, and even though like some have said, morals != religion, alot of morals are based off religious belives, or based of similar belifs. Therefor, morals my appear to be based off religion when they are part of the govn't.

[mr_man]

Originally posted by Blazing_Firebird:
Though you may say that the less religion you have, the less morals you have, I find this to be completely untrue.

I am a proud liberal, and always will be. I vote split ticket, but my life viwes are purely democratic and liberal.

I am not religious. I believe there is something, but I do not believe in the politics of religion that society has resorted to these days. Religion is just as much politics as government is, and it's sad. I do not follow organized religion, because I don't like the way the majority of the operate.

But because I am not religious (actively), does not mean I do not have morals. I have higher morals than most church-goers in my area, I'd say.

And in addition, you can be un-religious (is that a word, lol), and have morals, because there are certain societal norms and mores (sociology class paid off) that govern society, and there is an absense of religion in many of those.

I realize that this does not apply to everyone, I know people who aren't religous who have morals, and vice versa. If you are brought up to not believe in God, and someone asks you why you wouldn't cheat on someone (assuming that's part of your morals) what do you say? If you say it's not right, then why isn't it? Get what I'm trying to say?

Again, I know that you can have morals without religion, but those people are the exception not the rule. Also I'm not implying necassarilly no morals, but less.