Guys, Future camaro = dead No more Zeta - FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com Message Board

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Guys, Future camaro = dead No more Zeta

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    GM's problem right now is that it has dished out too many retirement and health care benefits: it will spend around $5 billion this year alone on employee health care (~5% of its total revenue.) GM also has a ratio of 1 to 2.5 of active workers to retirees (420,000 total retirees) so it is having to pay pensions to all of them. On top of all that, Suburbans and other large SUV's are not selling due to high gas prices and models like the Cobalt and G6 aren't performing to expectations.

    As of 2003 pensions and other post-retirement benefits accounted for 8.5% of GM's total liabilities. This is the BIG reason why the company is flopping around right now in the face of disappointing sales.

    Pensions cost GM $8 billion in 2003, net income was $3.8 billion. Imagine what the company could do if they cut HALF those costs. Their biggest problem is that they won't negotiate with the United Auto Workers union (UAW) and re-negotiate all those pension and health care plans. The company is going through a lot of problems right now, but that doesn't mean there won't be a new Camaro in the next few years. Their strategy is to cut costs and try to sell more cars, while at the same time keeping development of new models on schedule. The Camaro is not the ONLY rumored GM rear-drive car to be in development. From what I understand there have been several others. Have patience, the way GM is going with these pension liabilities there may not be enough resources to make the Camaro unless measures like this are taken.


    In response to the posts about keeping your f-body forever, being tired of them, etc: I will keep this car for as long as I can, I hope that is forever. There's a lot I can do for the car, and I'll be out of college in 3 years or so: that's not enough time for my Camaro to wear out, especially the way I take care of it. With the parents helping out on maintenance it will last. If you make a reasonable amount of money and want to spend it to keep the car looking and driving well then you will do it. Its all about how much the car MATTERS to you. If it has bad looking paint after ten years, has a failing transmission and some leaky seals, then you garage it and spend the money to slowly build it back up: get a new paint job, make it run well: what else are you going to do with it? Trade it in? Resale value on these cars is crappy. You can always get another car to drive around while the f-bod is down. People that don't keep their cars that they love either legitimately don't have the means or simply don't want to keep the car enough to spend money on it.

    [ March 22, 2005, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: Camarorulz ]
    -Eric<br />2002 Navy Blue Camaro...Striped and Stalled. 35th Anniversary SS wheels <br />Best ET: 15.384 @ 88.32 on street tires<br />Project Whitney: Goal, 14.0 1/4 by summer 2008.

    Comment


    • #62
      Bob Lutz is a raging idiot.

      Statements like... "The firebird's days are over."

      He said it like it was a bad thing. One of the best looking cars 98-02 Trans Am/Firebird.

      Bob Lutz needs to drop dead, seriously the guy is a moron. The C6 z06 is nice... but look at the price tag?

      The only car I would buy from GM right now is the corvette, and I probably won't have one until im 50.

      So what will I by in my younger years? Mustang Cobra, Used Camaro/Trans Am, Neon Srt-4.

      GM isnt fooling anyone with their Cobalt. Just like Mistubishi didn't fool anyone with their 3rd gen eclipse.

      Ford and Dodge are going to take over.

      GM sort of reminds me of Nintendo!

      Nintendo = Creates useless addons and items that most people fun ugly and pointless.

      GM = Creates usless and ugly cars that people won't buy.

      Nintendo = Develops 1 awsome game every year and the rest of garbage.

      GM = Manufactuers the Corvette and everything else is blah.

      Nintendo = Focuses games on children and strange groups of people.

      GM = Focuses many of their cars to buyers that don't exist or are very few (Avio, SSR, Buick Line, OldsMobile Line, Soon the Chevrolet car line.)

      Nintendo = Promises internet capability but fails.

      GM = Scraps ideas that people customers like.


      Maybe Nintendo and GM should get together and build a car...

      It can have tacky bright colors for paint options, A big red button you press to start your car, plastic seats, 100 horsepower, And an awkward steering wheel.

      This car will then be aimed towards 5 year olds with a valid drivers license.

      :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

      Comment


      • #63
        hey, dont forget the plumbers outfit that comes with each car!
        99 WS6
        13.25@104.97 - Lid + soon to be more other stock items ;D

        Originally posted by camaroextra
        tears are great lube, but its hard to get a girl to cry onto her own ***.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by shock_core:
          hey, dont forget the plumbers outfit that comes with each car!
          LMAO

          Comment


          • #65
            well my loyalty has been gone for a while
            i owned a 96 camaro and still have a 98 firebird and my current 00 grand prix...
            my next car (after i finish college) will definitely not be a GM... prolly a BMW, Audi or something along those lines...
            <b>*§*Julian*§*</b><br />*~*~*~<br />2000 Grand Prix GTP -Daytona 500 Edition (only 2000 made) - Supercharged 3.8L V6<br /><br />1998 3.8L V6 A4 Firebird w/ W68 package, Y87, T-TOPS!<br /><br /><a href=\"http://myweb.usf.edu/~jadidona/index.html\" target=\"_blank\">MY SITE - CHECK IT!</a>

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by silvachris1:
              Yeah, it's not like GM has alot of options right now. They have to do every thing they can to cut costs. Profit forcasts are down 80% for this year alone. The UAW is draining them with pensions and medical benefits. Health care alone is expected to cost GM 5.6 Billion dollars (thats billion with a "B"). The union janitors get paid around 22-23 dollars an hour. Cost has to be cut somewhere, and GMs best selling platforms (and the most successful platform worldwide) are GM trucks. The GMT900 (replaces the GMT800 chassis) has to be a success for GM, or they would be in a world of hurt. Niche cars like the zeta cars wont help them financially. They need somebody to come in and make smart business decisions now, not just performance minded people, and not just bean counters, but a combination cause the vehicles are gonna have to be dead on or things will get worse. And yeah, buying stock in GM prolly isn't a bad idea at this point, their shares fell 14% a few days ago, down to $28-$29(ish) a share. I doubt that GM will go bust, but they might end up filing chapter 11 in the next few years if things don't turn around. Only time will tell.
              Amist all the BS, there is finally someone who is looking at the whole picture. GM is a business, plain and simple. They are looking for ways to make money, and although gas prices are reaching new levels, SUV's seem to have the edge still. And for those who really are gas-efficient, there is the Cobalt, and a few other cars. The performance market has suffered for YEARS, not just with GM, but with all makers. Right now, there is just no room for another performance vehicle, when there is already choices out there.
              1995 Pontiac Firebird
              2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4

              Comment


              • #67
                well time to switch to FORD [img]tongue.gif[/img]

                Comment


                • #68
                  Whoever said that Bob Lutz is an idiot, how old are you? I doubt you have the credentials to make an amature attempt at critiquing the job he's done at GM. That entire post was a complete piece of rambling idiocy.
                  -Eric<br />2002 Navy Blue Camaro...Striped and Stalled. 35th Anniversary SS wheels <br />Best ET: 15.384 @ 88.32 on street tires<br />Project Whitney: Goal, 14.0 1/4 by summer 2008.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by vanbibber:
                    im staying loyal damit. as long as i have a f-body im happy. if they come out with new ones great. if not.... hey i still have mine. and i will keep it cherry so that 20-30 years from now it will be worth some $$$. becuase eventually most fbods will see the junk yard. :( if you dont believe me,go look at how many 2nd and 3rd gens there are there now. plus many 4th gens.
                    I like the way you think. I am staying loyal as well. GM FOR LIFE.

                    2000 Pewter Pontiac Transam 360rwhp, 370ftlbs
                    1998 Sport Gold Metallic Chevrolet Camaro *SOLD*
                    1974 Silver Chevrolet BIG BLOCK Corvette

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Camarorulz:
                      Whoever said that Bob Lutz is an idiot, how old are you? I doubt you have the credentials to make an amature attempt at critiquing the job he's done at GM. That entire post was a complete piece of rambling idiocy.
                      Well, Bob Lutz must be an idiot.

                      He killed the Camaro/Firebird.

                      Camarorulz, I have an idea, for you next car... why don't you buy a nice automatic buick lacrosse?

                      Or how about a deal on wheels Cobalt SS?

                      Or how about a nice expensive Cadillac?

                      GM does not have anything I would consider buying in the next couple years.

                      GM has made a very bad name for themselves. I hope Dodge and Ford eat up their sales big time.

                      Bob Lutz probably knows he made a mistake, cutting the f-body for the GTO and SSR, two very expensive cars that probably costed the company alot to design and perfect. Yet they are selling horribly. Way worse than the F-body did.

                      Good job Bob! Keep making thoughs boring Buicks too! Everyone wants them!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        one last thing...

                        If people on these forums and other forums can spend a couple grand on a turbo kit and get decent numbers out of their cars. WTF stops GM from using a turbo for their cobalt?

                        Dodge has a turbo on their Neon. The car can pull a 13.8 on a good day with a good driver.

                        And the best GM can do is a crappy 15 second cobalt.

                        Now I get GM's commcercials with the cobalt and corvette together... you are supposed to laugh at the cobalt cause it's a slow pos.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by BirdOfPrey01:
                          </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Camarorulz:
                          Whoever said that Bob Lutz is an idiot, how old are you? I doubt you have the credentials to make an amature attempt at critiquing the job he's done at GM. That entire post was a complete piece of rambling idiocy.
                          Well, Bob Lutz must be an idiot.

                          He killed the Camaro/Firebird.

                          Camarorulz, I have an idea, for you next car... why don't you buy a nice automatic buick lacrosse?

                          Or how about a deal on wheels Cobalt SS?

                          Or how about a nice expensive Cadillac?

                          GM does not have anything I would consider buying in the next couple years.

                          Bob Lutz probably knows he made a mistake, cutting the f-body for the GTO and SSR, two very expensive cars that probably costed the company alot to design and perfect. Yet they are selling horribly. Way worse than the F-body did.

                          Good job Bob! Keep making thoughs boring Buicks too! Everyone wants them!
                          </font>[/QUOTE]1. Bob Lutz had NOTHING to do with killing the Camaro and Firebird. You really need to do some research if you think so.

                          2. GTO is NOT selling horribly anymore. It was last year for a number of reasons, but the sales are up this year. It was NEVER meant to be a high volume vehicle.

                          3. GTO and SSR were NEVER meant to replace the Camaro and Firebird. Nor sell at the same volume. They were meant to be low volume niche vehicles.

                          Buick Lacrosse, Chevy Cobalt, and Cadillac all hit their perspective markets fine. They aren't meant to be bought by someone looking for a Camaro/Firebird replacement.

                          Just to add another point to this post, Zeta might be dead for NA, but it's not dead overall as Holden will continue development. Meanwhile GM NA will be looking at other platform possibilities that will keep costs down and allow them to be able to produce RWD vehicles competitively priced against the Mustang and 300C.

                          Chris
                          <b>2002 BSM TransAm WS.6 M6</b><br /><b>350rwhp, 365rwtq</b><br /><b>Stock:</b>13.455 @ 105.39 2.129 60\'<br /><b>Mod:</b>12.449 @ 113 1.832 60\'<br /><br /><b>2004 QSM GTO M6</b><br /><b>303rwhp, 329rwtq</b><br />Stock: 13.74 @ 102.14 2.1 60\'<br /><br /> <a href=\"http://members.cardomain.com/silvertaws6\" target=\"_blank\">http://members.cardomain.com/silvertaws6</a> <br /><br /><b>1984 Firebird S/E M5</b><br />2.8L

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by BirdOfPrey01:
                            one last thing...

                            If people on these forums and other forums can spend a couple grand on a turbo kit and get decent numbers out of their cars. WTF stops GM from using a turbo for their cobalt?

                            Dodge has a turbo on their Neon. The car can pull a 13.8 on a good day with a good driver.

                            And the best GM can do is a crappy 15 second cobalt.

                            Now I get GM's commcercials with the cobalt and corvette together... you are supposed to laugh at the cobalt cause it's a slow pos.
                            The Cobalt SS Supercharged has run a 14.6@97 in the mags already. As more tests come they're bound to get quicker times. Plus all they require for some extra power is a quick pulley change.

                            The 2.0L will most likely be getting a turbo in the near future for the Sky Red Line, reported to make over 250hp.

                            Chris
                            <b>2002 BSM TransAm WS.6 M6</b><br /><b>350rwhp, 365rwtq</b><br /><b>Stock:</b>13.455 @ 105.39 2.129 60\'<br /><b>Mod:</b>12.449 @ 113 1.832 60\'<br /><br /><b>2004 QSM GTO M6</b><br /><b>303rwhp, 329rwtq</b><br />Stock: 13.74 @ 102.14 2.1 60\'<br /><br /> <a href=\"http://members.cardomain.com/silvertaws6\" target=\"_blank\">http://members.cardomain.com/silvertaws6</a> <br /><br /><b>1984 Firebird S/E M5</b><br />2.8L

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by SilverTAWS6:
                              </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BirdOfPrey01:
                              one last thing...

                              If people on these forums and other forums can spend a couple grand on a turbo kit and get decent numbers out of their cars. WTF stops GM from using a turbo for their cobalt?

                              Dodge has a turbo on their Neon. The car can pull a 13.8 on a good day with a good driver.

                              And the best GM can do is a crappy 15 second cobalt.

                              Now I get GM's commcercials with the cobalt and corvette together... you are supposed to laugh at the cobalt cause it's a slow pos.
                              The Cobalt SS Supercharged has run a 14.6@97 in the mags already. As more tests come they're bound to get quicker times. Plus all they require for some extra power is a quick pulley change.

                              The 2.0L will most likely be getting a turbo in the near future for the Sky Red Line, reported to make over 250hp.

                              Chris
                              </font>[/QUOTE]Let's hope..

                              Still, I'm eyeing some C3 Vettes lately. 3 for sale by my house, one is manual. All in great condition, all under 10 grand.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                i'm still waiting for GM's answer to the new mustangs. Ford is eating GM's lunch. and No, the new GM I4 cars, and ecotech are not an answer, not even a parray :(

                                i want my damned camaro back :[
                                99 WS6
                                13.25@104.97 - Lid + soon to be more other stock items ;D

                                Originally posted by camaroextra
                                tears are great lube, but its hard to get a girl to cry onto her own ***.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                FORUM SPONSORS

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X