ACLU = LOSERS

[Merlin]

Originally posted by Stefan:
Um, dude, we live in D.C. and my lady works for a defense contractor... half this city works for the feds.

Oh well that explains everything.... I mean even the janitor at the Pentagon must have the "inside" on Bush's war on terrorism. :rolleyes:

[mjparme]

Did they bother to tell anyone when they pulled out? Can you offer any evidence to support your claims?

Let's get to the bottom of this without attacking eachother.

My post was referring to the writer of the article, not the original poster. Sorry should have specified who "that guy" was.

Here is a CNN article to support my claims:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/08/01/ac...ons/index.html

People must misunderstand what the ACLU does. Their sole purpose is to protect the Bill of Rights against government infringement. How can any patriotic American be against them?

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by maxcamaro:
i wrote an essay in english about why the ACLU is so bad for America

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Machiavelli:
if someone is erroneously thought of as a terrorist - they shouldnt have a job... I hope none of you ever end up wrongly accused.

there the liberals go again defending the terrorist </font>[/QUOTE]wow you wrote an essay... for what, 9th grade english class?

And as for the "liberals defending terrorists"... youre insane...get a life and learn what erroneous means. As I said, not everyone on the terrorist watch lists are in fact terrorists... I cant wait until youre wrongly accused of something.

[VaeVictus]

ACLU attacking the boy scouts in San Diego prevents so much wrong doing in our society. Defending members of NAMBLA for free also is great for our society. Let us all avert our eyes when a member of an organization as such rapes and murders a ten year old boy. They USED to be a useful organization, now they are just idealogues seeking an internationalist socialist society where no one is to blame for their mistakes or shortcomings but society, and thus society must pay. I raise the BS flag now, and hope one day the ACLU comes to an abrupt end.

[mjparme]

now they are just idealogues seeking an internationalist socialist society where no one is to blame for their mistakes or shortcomings but society

???

Do you even now what the ACLU is? It is a group of lawyers who defends the Bill of Rights. Where do you get the idea they want a socialist society??? That is just propaganda put out by people who apparently hate the Bill of Rights and hate the ACLU for defending it.

The NAMBLA case was a free speech issue.

The issue with the Boy Scouts is they are using federal money but then discriminate against people based on sexual orientation. The ACLU was challenging the Boy Scout's claim that they are a private club when they receive PUBLIC money. If there was no federal money involved the ACLU wouldn't have been involved.

ACLU != Liberalism
ACLU = Freedom

[VaeVictus]

No, the Nambla case involved a man who murdered a 10 year old boy after raping him, after which the lawyers were trying to have the names of the members listed so they can be known as what they are, sexual predators.

Boy Scouts in San Diego involved their use of a park that they have maintained since it was opened and paid an annual fee of 1$ to use the public park for their gatherings.

Las Angelas County Seal, sued to force them to remove tiny cross that has historical significance of it's founding, while allowing on this same seal the greek goddess pomona to remain. Double standard.

I could go on.

[maxcamaro]

Originally posted by Machiavelli:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by maxcamaro:
i wrote an essay in english about why the ACLU is so bad for America

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Machiavelli:
if someone is erroneously thought of as a terrorist - they shouldnt have a job... I hope none of you ever end up wrongly accused.

there the liberals go again defending the terrorist </font>[/QUOTE]wow you wrote an essay... for what, 9th grade english class?

And as for the "liberals defending terrorists"... youre insane...get a life and learn what erroneous means. As I said, not everyone on the terrorist watch lists are in fact terrorists... I cant wait until youre wrongly accused of something. </font>[/QUOTE]nope 10th grade english class.

How about u get a life and face the reality of the terrorist threat facing our country...you probably think there shouldn't even be a terrorist watch list, a patriot act or a CIA which directly contradicts the liberal idealogy of a bigger goverment

[3.4 [deployed]]

Originally posted by Stefan:

As much as I hate the ACLU, in general they are a very strong opponent to big oppressive government and they stand up for basic privacy. In that regard they are probably better for this country than the government is.

MY A$$

I've lived in that area a WHOLE lot longer than you have.

ACLU vs Naval Academy on VOLUNTARY lunch time prayer


ACLU sues LA County over it's seal
and read the whole story!!!!


ACLU .....interesting. THey don't mention how they sued a VFW for flying his AMERICAN flag in a housing development. Defending rights of citizens . yeah, right :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The "war" is full of it??? But that's OK, because defense contractors are hiring????? Please stop showing your ignorance and duplicity.

[ August 17, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: 3.4 [deployed] ]

[Machiavelli]

nate - when youre going to quote court cases please use the original source - I dont know anything about these cases, but I KNOW that you're not getting an unbiased source just by looking at the sources youre using... the accounts in those articles will be heavily SPUN.

And maxcamaro: I wouldnt even honor your comments with a response, but youre a junior in high school and you have a LOT to learn. Im not trying to talk down to you, but you need to realize that you have some very short sighted and incorrect views.
First of all, you wrote a paper in a 10th grade class - I just read some of my work from 10th grade and it is NOTHING compared to what I write now on a DAILY basis. Trust me your views and opinions change.

"Liberals" as you term them, using your criteria, are actually quite rare and really anti-CIA, anti-big brother stuff fits a libertarian architype and an extreme libertarian is an anarchist (MTMike ;) ). However, to be fair Anarchists are only stereotypically little teenie boppers rebeling against authority - extreme libertarians just ahve too much faith in human nature to govern itself.

Now that Ive established that Liberals, in the definition of the ideology, are not against the things you said liberals are against I will explain MY ideology.

I am a Democrat - I am not a liberal.
I am libertarian when it comes to personal freedoms. I am liberal when it comes to state programs. I am a populist when it comes to taxes and the economy. I am a classical conservative/realist (which is NOT the same as Bush's and the GOP's Neo-Con ideology) when it comes to foreign policy.
All of this combined makes me a very much of a moderate.

[mjparme]

ACLU vs Naval Academy on VOLUNTARY lunch time prayer

That article is written by someone that has obvious issues with the ACLU. I would like to see source material on that case rather than an article that contains his spin on the facts.

THey don't mention how they sued a VFW for flying his AMERICAN flag in a housing development. Defending rights of citizens . yeah, righ

Are you sure you have the facts of this case right? Can you cite a source? Because I remember hearing about a case like this but if I remember correctly the ACLU was sueing on BEHALF of the veteran (for him, not against him).

ACLU sues LA County over it's seal
and read the whole story!!!!

Yes, the ACLU does go after religious symbols on government property pretty regularly. They just do this to protect the 1st Amendment. Do they go to far in some cases? Maybe. Although I would rather see an error made on the side of freedom rather than letting someone walk over the 1st Amendment.


You pick a few cases which you don't agree with. Go look at other cases where you do agree with the ACLU you might be surprised and learn you agree with their stance more than you disagree. Look at their 4th Amendment cases (search and siezure).

The news media only reports on cases which are on the fringes. Look at their other cases.

Here is a link to the Supreme Court cases they were involved in this year (although they are involved in cases in all levels of the Judiciary):

http://www.aclu.org/court/courtmain.cfm

Take a look at Arizona v. Gant. ACLU fought for Gant (they lost in the Supreme Court). In that case the guy wasn't in his car when he was arrested but the police searched the car incident to the arrest anyway because he was recently in it. Supreme Court ended up ruling this was ok. If an asinine decision like this is made even with the ACLU the 4th amendment would pretty well be worthless if the ACLU wasn't around.

[ August 17, 2004, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: mjparme ]

[VaeVictus]

No, they go after Christian religious symbolism. In California, there is a class that requires students to recite Islamc prayers in public school, read from a book that states "by the end of this book, you will convert to Islam" and nothing is being done. It was brought to court,the judge basically said, it was educational so it was ok. No ACLU there. But a seal, that is hardly recognizable, suing b/c it may make visitors feel unwelcome. That is rediculous. A teacher in NJ was fired for wearing a cruficix to school, she sought help from the ACLU, didn't happen. If you ask me, it is a personal freedom to wear a crucifix, they didn't care. Sure, it sounds petty, but the county seal was petty beyond being petty, and not to mention the goddess pomona was allowed to remain? No double standards, if we are going to be so childishly politically correct, it needs to be across the board. Seperation of church and state is not seperation from church and state. Freedom of religion is not freedom from it.

[mjparme]

No, they go after Christian religious symbolism. In California, there is a class that requires students to recite Islamc prayers in public school, read from a book that states "by the end of this book, you will convert to Islam" and nothing is being done. It was brought to court,the judge basically said, it was educational so it was ok. No ACLU there. But a seal, that is hardly recognizable, suing b/c it may make visitors feel unwelcome. That is rediculous. A teacher in NJ was fired for wearing a cruficix to school, she sought help from the ACLU, didn't happen.

I would need source material regarding facts of these situations to respond. However, the ACLU does not have (monetary nor manpower) to take on a case for everybody. They try to take cases were they see an oppurtunity for precedent to be set therefore helping the most amount of people.

Seperation of church and state is not seperation from church and state. Freedom of religion is not freedom from it.

We obviously totally disagree here [img]smile.gif[/img] Take the nots out of your last sentence and you have my take on it:

Seperation of church and state IS seperation from church and state. Freedom of religion IS freedom from it.

In the words of George Carlin "Keep thy religion to thyself".

However, the ACLU gets a bad rap for their 1st Amendment cases regarding seperation of church and state. They handle many cases regarding the Bill of Rights, not just the 1st Amendment.

Here is an article that mentions cases in which the ACLU has fought FOR religion:

http://www.laaclu.org/News/2003/Dec%...20Displays.htm

[ August 17, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: mjparme ]

[3.4 [deployed]]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/172143.shtml

still looking for the Andres~ACLU link. I have more resources back home.

other Nate: Of course there's gonna be a spin. There's always going to be a spin, whether my source or yours. Wouldn't it be nice to get something w/o a spin, for once??? But that will never happen in politics :(

[maxcamaro]

ok Machiavelli i guess since im in 11th grade and im 16 years old that somehow makes me blind to everything thats going on in the world. But your wrong, i keep up with politics and im better informed than anyone i know. I watch FOX news as well as CNN and i form my own opinion around what they report. And for u to say im "to young" to understand politics that makes you the ignorant one.

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by 3.4 [deployed]:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...3/172143.shtml

still looking for the Andres~ACLU link. I have more resources back home.

other Nate: Of course there's gonna be a spin. There's always going to be a spin, whether my source or yours. Wouldn't it be nice to get something w/o a spin, for once??? But that will never happen in politics :(

There should be facts of the case with summaries of what both sides were - find someone w/ access to lexisnexis... I'll have it back in a few days, I can do it then.

And who is this "other nate".. I assumed you were referring to me, but my name is Nicolo Machiavelli....