The truth about welfare

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by VaeVictus:
If I made a dollar a year or 25 billion a year, I still made it, regardless of what anyone else does. You do realize that people who feel guilty about making so much money can pay more in taxes if they so choose. Let them. If I catch a fish, I should be able to eat it, not have someone else tell me, oh , you have to share that with everyone else.

Youre missing my point...
I acknowledge that its unfair - the tax system is unfair. The rich pay much more than the poor... they work and get paid more they deserve to keep it. Yes, that is true. Too bad we cant make it work.
I'd much rather push the majority of the cost of society off on the top 5% than make 90-95% of the folks take on an undo burden.

We need to stop the squeeze on the middle and lower classes in this country, THAT will help the economy.

['98 BlackBird]

Stefan............ what did you start? [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img]
[img]graemlins/popcorn.gif[/img]

[VaeVictus]

It seems we completely differ in ideaology. I understand what you mean, but I personally like to do things on my own. I also realize I have taken advantage of many of the great things that our American society allows(roads,police,military security,buildings,education,etc),I just don't like to take what is not mine. When does this higher taxing become income redistribution? Is that what we want? You also have to realize that there is such a large amount of government waste (spending) and so much can be done in oversight if we'd just do it. We wouldn't need to tax as much if we'd watch our government more closely.

[Christian]

Geaux Welfare [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]

[VaeVictus]

I have no problem with paying taxes either, I just know that when they are increased, someone is lining their pockets, and I nor the intended are benefiting from it. As far as welfare goes, it needs to be monitored vigorously, prove you are seeking employment, have limitations on how long and often you can have this, based on a person's situation. Too much waste + raising taxes is not the answer to societies ills.

[Machiavelli]

VaeVictus - taxes should NOT be raised on you, and you should NOT have as high of tax burden as you DO have.

[Christian]

Geaux Taxes!!!

[95fbirdkid]

He saves 60%, yea sure

I couldnt care less if you belive me or not, but i do.

My parents are very thrifty - after taxes they probably save about 40-45+% for retirement and other savings as well as investments and such. However, they can do this b/c they were raised privledged and remain highly paid compared to most of America. They feel they have a societal obligation to those less fortunate... why dont any of you??

Your parents sound like nice people, however just because they are nice doesnt mean the have a social obligation, and just b/c they feel that way doesnt mean others should have to.

If I made a dollar a year or 25 billion a year, I still made it, regardless of what anyone else does. You do realize that people who feel guilty about making so much money can pay more in taxes if they so choose. Let them. If I catch a fish, I should be able to eat it, not have someone else tell me, oh , you have to share that with everyone else.

exactly

I'd much rather push the majority of the cost of society off on the top 5% than make 90-95% of the folks take on an undo burden.

Thats b/c your not one of the top 5%.


It makes me sick that so many people would rather sit around than get off their *** and get a job. And dont say "not everyone can get by untill they find a job" b/c there is hardly no one out there that cant get hired by McDonalds or Wendys untill they find somthing more perminent.

[ August 17, 2004, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: 95fbirdkid ]

[Everglades W68]

There must be a balance between a complete disregard and neglect for everyone in all situations versus a welfare state that creates disincentives to working. The balance is never going to be perfect, nor will the process of trying to achieve a better society be perfect or smooth.

As far as what Machiavelli said above,
"[My parents] feel they have a societal obligation to those less fortunate... why dont any of you??"

I think the answer from most rational adult persons, is, "Yes, of course there is a societal obligation to the less fortunate." The problem lies in to what extent and how the assistance is provided to the less fortunate.

I have come to find a phenomenon that is quite hard to explain. Many wealthy Democrats want to raise taxes on the rich. Ok, that is a valid position to take.

My question (not a welfare issue, but rather, a tax issue) is this: Why don't these wealthy Democrats simply tax themselves at the rate they feel is more appropriate? If the increase in the tax rates are so vital, why don't wealthy taxpayers who believe in this position pay more voluntarily?

[PewterBird]

Good point, but I rather see those steriotypical welfare receipients get there **** together.

I make hardley any money, but I dont steal, do drugs, and have a buncha kids. Im a honest responsible citezen, and No one helps me.

[Machiavelli]

Originally posted by Everglades W68:

My question (not a welfare issue, but rather, a tax issue) is this: Why don't these wealthy Democrats simply tax themselves at the rate they feel is more appropriate? If the increase in the tax rates are so vital, why don't wealthy taxpayers who believe in this position pay more voluntarily?

Well, because there arent enough to make a big enough difference that would do it voluntarily.

Also, something that needs to be understood about our tax system is not only is it progressive it is also graduated. Meaning that in tax brackets, only your ammount over that bracket is taxed at that rate.... Its not like ok a person making 16 grand pays 10 person and a person making 1 mil pays 40 percent... the person making 1 mil only pays 40% of the ammount he/she makes OVER the limit of 40%.

95fbirdkid... Im not in that top 5%... however right now the tax system is unfair to 95%... why not shift more of that unfairness to only 5%?? 95% of the people will have MORE money, 5% will have less.... I guess its unfair, but it depends on what your definition of "is".. is? I mean it depends on what your definition of "unfair" is.

[Skapimp]

You want to talk about how fair taxes are?

"In 2001, the last year for which this analysis from the Internal Revenue Service is available, the 1.3 million returns representing the top 1 percent of all taxpayers collected 17.5 percent of all income and paid 33.9 percent of all income taxes."

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/men....ImageFile.jpg

Yes, that's fair, 1% of the US pays for 34% of all income taxes... top 50 percent pay 96% of taxes... great, so as long as I don't make as much as everyone else, I'll just suck them dry.

Flat tax is the way to go... if that doesn't work, then about about you get a ****ing job.

[fantomfreke]

i make 27k before taxes. after taxes ins./401 i only make 15k. thats not a lot of money to survive off of.

however...

if i had 270k before taxes and afterwards had 150k to live off of i should be able to survive EASILY. you see the diff??

[Ian]

I have only read stefans post, and no others.

All i gotta say is that your logic is totally flawed.

Im not even gonna get into it because i dont wanna get banned.

[MTMike]

Originally posted by Christian:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MTMike:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Christian:
He saves 60%, yea sure

Do you have proof that he doesn't? </font>[/QUOTE]Are you on his nuts? Have proof about that </font>[/QUOTE]Way to avoid the quesiton.... tool! [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img]