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Originally posted by Machiavelli: I can agree to disagree but I want to know what influence on the Constitution that youre talking about that isnt a common belief in many other places on Earth? Through other writings?
Also, Id like to know what is directly quoted.
Let me look over my notes from a class I took taught by David Barton. If you want you can access his site and find some of the information there. I know some view him as a religious heretic, but his study of Historical Documents is un-challenged.
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Wow, I only read a few posts and I'm pissed off... FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T LIKE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS COUNTRY AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!! YOU HAVE A LOT OF NERVE.
I think it is a trivial thing to discuss. We should actually be discussing how much taxpayer money has been wasted on this non issue.
No one is being forced to say it, and it's a tradition. What's the problem?
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Originally posted by Shirl: Wow, I only read a few posts and I'm pissed off... FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T LIKE THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE, GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS COUNTRY AND GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!! YOU HAVE A LOT OF NERVE.
Oh crap, Shirl's pissed! :runs off and hides in a corner:
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Oh great, I said Shirl's pissed, and now Shirl's really pissed! Run! [img]tongue.gif[/img] J/K Nice to see that you express when you believe in something, however!
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Damn, if you don't want to say it, don't. But don't take away my choice of saying it.
Proper punishment for this douchebag should be to pay all court costs, then do a reneactment of the Omega initiation courtisy of Neidermier and have him say "Thank you GOD, may I have another"
And just think of the crap the kid is going to have to endure growing up........ [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img]
I am with Shirl, if you don't like the Pledge of Alliange you might as well be considered a Traitor. All over the world people are taught to love their country and be a patriot. When someone tries to do this here some idiot tries to undo it by saying they are being forced to. It's not like your teacher has a gun pointed at you telling you to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Deal with it and stop crying.
What's particularly interesting was that the case was dismissed on a technicality. All eight of the judges that heard the case agreed that he didn't have legal standing to speak for his daughter. The merits of his case were a non-issue.
I suspect that it will only be a matter of time before someone with valid legal standing will challenge the constitutionality of the phrase, and the court will finally be forced to deal with the issue.
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I think that if it bothers people that much we should just get a hobo, change his name to "God", and then put him in a balloon tethered over our great nation. That way if you don't believe in the biblical God you can see for yourself through a telescope that the hobo does exist.
Originally posted by 3.4 [deployed]: What is the issue? SOmeone refusing to not say a certain part of a pledge? Then just don't say it.
What ever happened to good 'ol common sense? But then yuo can buy hot coffe, burn yourself, sue and win because it was hot.
What a country :rolleyes:
[sarcasm]Noo, everyone has to say every word or they will be shot. Simply having the word god said around me takes away my right to freedom of religion, so I'm going to take away others right to say the pledge as it has been said for a really long time [/sarcasm]
Shirl/NSolano: I never thought of either of you as capable of saying such an ignorant statement. If you dont like the pledge get the hell out? If you dont like it youre a traitor?? whatever happened to the freedoms we have in America?
And as for other countries taught patriotism....actually, theyre not. They find our sense of patriotism completely perplexing... they dont understand it... most of Europe has learned the dangers of Nationalism throughout their several hundred years of war. Asia? Not much Patriotism there either... Africa??? no. Irish and Scottish patriotism has led many of the "patriots" to terrorism..
And Timbo - Im sorry but I just can not accept anything Barton says as valid. He is widely thought of as an unreliable academic. He is the only frontman for a small, but outspoken movement of christian fundamentalists.
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