The F-Body Performance Paradox

[imported_admin]

There's an interesting thing about performance cars... kind of a paradox.

I have come to the conclusion that all V6/V8 F-Body performance buffs are all broke young guys. This will never change. Even if it "only" takes $10k to make an LS1 run 10's, very few people will actually do it.

Why is that?

The average F-Body owner is an unmarried male, 16-25 years old. At that age, the average owner is broke, not making much money, and buried in credit card and student loan debt. He/she will spend every available dime on performance parts but there just isn't much to spare. A common saying is "I can't wait until I graduate and get a real job, I'll make real money and I'll be able to buy all these such-and-such go-fast parts!"

Then the person hits about age 25, gets married, gets a stable career, and suddenly has the ability to do everything he wanted to do with the car when he was younger. Only problem is, by that point, the person realizes how dumb dumping money into a car is and starts looking for better investments: a house, stocks, mutual funds, a family, etc.

This came up at AIS. As an example, four of our well-known members in this category had this exact discussion: 12secondv6, Infernal, TealV6, and myself. All four of us are in our late 20's and could easily afford a twin turbo LS1 if we really wanted to... but all of us realized that there are better things to spend money on. Infernal got the LS1 but kept it stock, Teal got the bike, I got the Corolla and am still working on the house downpayment, James got the Neon and also expressed interest in real estate.

I mean, why bother? Sure, you're only young once, but you have to grow up sometime. Why not wait with the sports car until you're loaded to the point where a nice car (i.e. Corvette) is no big deal? Why break your back trying to afford a cheap car? Face it--in the face of its competition: the Corvette, Nissan 350Z, Audi twin turbo roadster, etc., the F-Body is a cheap piece of junk. Its only worth $10k-$15k for a reason, regardless of how much you spend on souped-up parts for it. I'd much rather spend $20k as a downpayment on a house than as a complete engine and suspension buildup on a car. I want an investment that appreciates, not one that depreciates.

So it goes... you spend your youth wishing you could afford all these cool modifications, then by the time you can afford them you don't want them anymore. The F-Body Performance Paradox. Therefore, if a complete engine package cost $10,000 but would put your car instantly in the 10's, no one would ever buy it.

Thoughts, preferably from the over-25 crowd?

[skorpion317]

i can see what you're saying....i don't think i'll ever lose the performance bug though. i'm only 20 years old.

[john rocco]

imnot in the over 25 crowd...but i am 23 married with children and a house , and i still want to do all those things with my car, it may not be the wisest investment, but i have 3 and i am working on more.
mayhap i still maintain my youthful philisophy, but i still love these cars and will not get rid of them, i am more of a stock type of guy,i mean look at the 60's camaros in mint condition, they are valuable. keeping these cars in great shape and restoring them to new condition and better is my cup of tea.
i dont see this as a piece of junk car what so ever. i love all camaros and birds, and wouldnt but/drive another type, having been an owner for over 6 years of camaros.
still i am 1 years and 4 months away from 25, so my views may change, but i doubt it, and [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img] sacrilige on you for thinking down on the cars, lol.
to each his own, i say.

[j_downey50]

Originally posted by Stefan:
The average F-Body owner is an unmarried male, 16-25 years old. At that age, the average owner is broke, not making much money, and buried in credit card and student loan debt. He/she will spend every available dime on performance parts but there just isn't much to spare. A common saying is "I can't wait until I graduate and get a real job, I'll make real money and I'll be able to buy all these such-and-such go-fast parts!"

to tell you the truth, you've just paraphrased my whole plan for my car. i'm 16.

Originally posted by Stefan:
Why not wait with the sports car until you're loaded to the point where a nice car (i.e. Corvette) is no big deal?

this coming from the man i remember saying that the corvette is, "a makeshift sports car for men going through a mid-life crisis?" [img]tongue.gif[/img] ;)

[12secondv6]

I'll be 28 this year.

I have lost a lot of that interest I had a couple years ago.

I find myself in the best position now money wise. I could instantly have my built engine w/ a direct port system on top and just let lose.....but.... I have reached that part in my life where I DO realize... the car is a hobbie.

I want other things in life.

I want my own house. I want that investment.

I bought a NORMAL car.

The car... has always and WILL always be a money pit.

I have always been investing my money ever since I remember..... but as soon as the magical 25 yrs old I finally realized there is life beyond the car and stepped up the investing.

Hell, I've even thought about NOT upgrading to the SRT4... because I know I would waste money on it when that money could be well spent towards a house.

Sigh, it is just another stage in life. I am accepting it, and do look forward to it.

Stefan, you were dead on about many things.

[papismark]

This sort of thing doesn't only apply to modifying cars. The same thing could be applied to buying the car in the first place. I mean, the people that would really have fun with that Corvette (or Ferrari, or whatever...) are those in that 16-25 crowd. However, none of them are anywhere near capable of buying one. It's unlikely that you'll be able to afford anything like this until after you're 30, and by then you're probably married, got kids, and all that. That, of course, means that this kind of car is no longer practical, despite the fact that you can now afford the car you always wanted. Also, once you get to be around 25ish, you start looking at things differently, from a (hopefully) more mature perspective, and you start doing insane things like using your mod money to buy a new couch or washing machine. Silly stuff like that.

[speedracer95v6]

I totally get what you are saying and I'm trying to limit myself on my modifications and stuff so as to not get out of hand.

I'm working on a (legal) way to make some serious cash though, so hopefully my whims will be doable without having an effect on my real financial goals and needs.

[ka50]

It all depends what you want in the end.

I'm pretty sure that I'll buy a v8 f-body and make it pretty fast. Why you might ask?

well... why live then? you just gotta do what you enjoy. You want a fast car - get it (either by buying it or building yourself)... you want reliable car - get it. It all comes down to what each particular person wants out of life.

['94firebirdv6]

im 16 and my cousin is 17 and we've had this talk. we decided that we'd never stop liking/working on cars. The other day at walmarts parking lot we were in his GT and 5 mid 40s men on crotch rockets surrounded us and tempted us to get on it by riding wheelies and revving their engines. we decided that thats the way we would be when we grew up. im a sophmore and he's a senior. we decided that instead of going to wyotech or UTI right out of high school, we would go through college and start careers. Im going to be either a mechanical or aeronautical engineer, he doesnt know his major yet. but after we have our careers we our going to get certified and open up a speed shop in Columbus called "Cousins Racing Speed Shop" w/ a sign that says: "experts at modifing and restoring American Muscle!" and in little print "also accepts imports" because it isnt that time consuming putting on performance stickers or installing a nitrous system thats not even hooked up. basically we decided that our interests in cars would never change and to pursue it even further after we already had a solid career to fall back on.

anyway....thats pretty much my plan in life

[Mighty Thor]

Stephan, it sounds like to me that you lost your interest in your bird. I think you burned out and try to apply logic to it. There are far more important things out there, that's true. There should always be a balance in life and not get obsese with one thing.

As far as car is concern. They are always getting outdated and they lost there luster in performance and style. But Camaros and Firebirds for some of us will always be a jewel.

I don't really care about most cars, maybe except for Lamborgini Contach, I'm plain and simple a big fan of Firebirds.

Money is not really an issue. And if I could invest some money on my birds, I would do it.

I bought, paid off and traded 6 cars and SUV. Right now I own 2 Firebirds, Santa Fe and a truck. I will never get tired where I will trade or sell my birds. Because I am that big of a fan. My next ride will be an 89 Formula that I plan on turning it into a K.I.T.T.

[pontiac nino]

What took so long to come to realization of this? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[CAMAROWIDBASS]

I never did get the go mod bug, real only mods on my car for performance is an LSD and an FIPK.

It hit me when i was about 17 that whats the point of dumping money into performace if 99% of the time you have the break the law to take advatage of the performance part you put in. So you pretty much spend you check on something that half the time you can even use.

[malice10985]

I have spent part of the evening taking a Marine Corps university online class about "defensive driving".

Once I get commissioned, I am gonna have to step my driving waaaaay down. The military has no room for hot rodding. If I get a set amount tickets in a year, I have to get a psycological evaluation to determine if I am fit to drive/serve in the USMC.

I originally wanted to burry myself in debt right out of college by buying a new GTO or 2002 z28. Now I just want to run my current maro into the ground.

I still love working on hot rods, but I am slowly realizing that I will never have the time to do so in the military as a young officer. I am gonna finish out modding my v6 and drive it for a while.

[MTMike]

I'm in the 25 crowd (or will be in 2 weeks) Own 3 vehicles, a house, 2 cats, 2 dogs. I have a career and a growingly successful business.

My interest have shifted. I don't want to mod my Z28. I plan on keeping it, and it's just as fast as I want it. My gear-head outlet is in my truck. My new vehicular passion is off the road - on the trail.

My Z28 is now my weekend cruiser and nothing more. I've put barely 3,000 miles on it in 11 months. I've actually been tempted to sell it; not because it's a financial burdon, but because it's not financially smart to own a vehicle that gets driven 3,000 miles per year. Yet I keep it. Not because I need it, but because I want it. I enjoy it, and I can afford it. It is my dream car, thus I keep it, though I don't drive it every day. It doens't bother me that it'll be worth $4,000 in 3 years, becuase it's worth more than money to me. I don't own it as investment - I own it for the personal satisfaction it gives me to drive what I like.

I could get rid of my truck and my car, get more practical transportation by spending about $20k on a newer or new car, but how boring would that be? I could afford something like a 350Z or an 5 year old Vette, but I don't want either of those cars. I want an LS1 powered Camaro. I want a jacked up pickup truck. I own all of the above. Thus, I'm happy with my vehicles, and I can afford them. If I was making $150k/yr, I'd have the same vehciles, plus a nice newer Cadillac as a practical daily driver. Thats the only change.

-Mike

[MustangEater8251]

I don't know hard to say for me... I am 22, but I definitely see what you are saying. I enjoy racing cars more then modding them. I love hitting the dragstrip and autocrossing courses, obviously with that comes modding, and I am a hands on working type of guy so I enjoy that too.

I like having something and working on it to improve it, also enjoy troubleshooting and problem solving... My thing is it takes too much money. Over the years between my cars I have restrained on the mods but I have spent more money on track entrance fees then anything... I am saving for several things now and trying to finish school its rough and I still enjoy doing things with my cars...

Only thing that keeps me from racing every week, and autocrossing twice a month is money and time. Sometimes I have to work, and money, gets expensive driving to events, gas, tolls, entrance fees, snacks, etc... Then the added wear and tear on my car... REason why you haven't heard much about me racing is when I really get into in my car I have clutch problems, if I didn't have any, I woudl have a lsd, and a WEt kit installed, but don't ahve the money to do the clutch and all the other stuff yet. Saving for a few other priorities in my life.

I see what you are getting at stefan, as for going to the vette, the car doesn't matter to me, if I was knocked down to a 4 banger 82 Camaro I'd still have fun with it. I can get whatever car I can afford and enjoy.