E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

[Camarorulz]

I saw a show on Ethanol on CNN and started wondering how hard it would be to make the 3800 run on ethanol. From what I'm reading, it theoretically shouldn't be that difficult.

I searched and only saw one post on this (in this forum) and basically everyone concluded that you can run E85 in the 3800 as is, but performance and fuel economy would be terrible. That's why increasing the compression ratio significantly enough to optimize performance would make it viable.

Any thoughts, am I wrong about any of this?

I'm looking to keep my car for a long time, so maybe this will be a future project.

[terminaldegree]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

In addition to what you already mentioned, I'm not sure if E85 is totally compatible with our fuel system parts.

IIRC, most flex-fuel vehicles have different parts in their fuel systems.
Personally, I hate the idea of E85. Enormous federal subsidy, less performance, lower mileage...

[barracuda70]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

I think E85 eats up any rubber gaskets in the fuel system so you would probably have to replace those. and i wonder if its like when you switch to a biodiesel fuel and breaks up all the crap in the fuel system and clogs up the filter.

[bah]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

IIRC, most flex-fuel vehicles have different parts in their fuel systems.
Personally, I hate the idea of E85. Enormous federal subsidy, less performance, lower mileage...

yeah, but what happens when the iraqis decide to charge us $3469385702439524 a barrel, it is a reasonable concern with gas prices on the rise as they are, something has to be done, unfourtounately :(

[Fred]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

yeah, but what happens when the iraqis decide to charge us $3469385702439524 a barrel, it is a reasonable concern with gas prices on the rise as they are, something has to be done, unfourtounately :(

Thats when you bomb the **** out of em.

[FirebirdGT]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

yeah, but what happens when the iraqis decide to charge us $3469385702439524 a barrel, it is a reasonable concern with gas prices on the rise as they are, something has to be done, unfourtounately :(

Did you mean Iran? Iraq won't, not while we're in country.

[RicE-ter]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

yes you would have to upgrade the fuel lines cuz it would eat away and the injectors cuz it takes more and yes you would get worse mileage with ethanol.

regular gas is actually like 90 percent gas and 10% ethanol. while the E85 is the like 15%gas 85%ethanol. E85 was supposed to be like 30 cents cheaper a gallon i think but they didnt make enough so its actually guna end up like 5 cents more expensive. yes performance suffers a lil but it runs like 5x cooler than gas.

and wouldnt you change the filter along with everything to convert to biodiesel, and its pretty sweet to be able to go to the closest mcdonalds or whatever to fill it up again

[Skapimp]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

yeah, but what happens when the iraqis decide to charge us $3469385702439524 a barrel, it is a reasonable concern with gas prices on the rise as they are, something has to be done, unfourtounately :(

uhm, Iraq is the 10th producer, US being 3rd making 3 times the amount per year. Suadi Arabia has twice the reserves as Iraq and not to mention Canada (NAFTA) is 2nd in the world with reserves.

Most of our oil doesn't come from Iraq, btw. Hell, we get more from Angola.

We get most of our oil from Canada and Mexico...

http://www.gravmag.com/oilimports05.jpg

do some research, it helps.

[camaro_speedemon]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

uhm, Iraq is the 10th producer, US being 3rd making 3 times the amount per year. Suadi Arabia has twice the reserves as Iraq and not to mention Canada (NAFTA) is 2nd in the world with reserves.

Most of our oil doesn't come from Iraq, btw. Hell, we get more from Angola.

We get most of our oil from Canada and Mexico...

http://www.gravmag.com/oilimports05.jpg

do some research, it helps.

Yes, but when anything happens in the middle east, oil companies jack their prices up.

For the independance of OPEC, I say it's worth it. Plus we WILL run out of oil. It may be 5 years away, it maybe 50 years away, it may be 100 years away, no one knows. Wouldn't it be better to start switching now and have a renewable energy source?

And I'm pretty sure that E85 is cheaper then gas right now, as there is very little demand for it.

[Skapimp]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

Yes, but when anything happens in the middle east, oil companies jack their prices up.

For the independance of OPEC, I say it's worth it. Plus we WILL run out of oil. It may be 5 years away, it maybe 50 years away, it may be 100 years away, no one knows. Wouldn't it be better to start switching now and have a renewable energy source?

And I'm pretty sure that E85 is cheaper then gas right now, as there is very little demand for it.

I wasn't doubting that, just his logic that Iraq controls oil is wrong.


side note: I my friend owned a gas station for over a year, and one day when I was helping him out this black man walks in and starts yelling at him because gas prices were so high. He said, and I quote: "It's a conspiracy, oil is a reproducing resource. We're never going to run out because the
earth keeps making it".... he didn't quite get the concept that we're using more than it's making.

Anyways, it's estimated that we have 1,000 million barrells left on earth (known) and another 1,000 million left (unfound so far).

[SpeedingFirebird]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

Yes, but when anything happens in the middle east, oil companies jack their prices up.

Nope. Oil prices are set by the futures market on wall street. When anything happens in the middle east, traders buy because they anticipate a shortage. Higher trading means higher prices.

Oil companies have some control over the local prices, but not as much as most people think.

[Camarorulz]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

Skapimp, you're basically right. First, all of the major oil producing nations in the Middle East are part of a cartel called OPEC (Oil Producing and Exporting Countries) Opec is what I just said, a cartel, which is an organization in which the members work together to agree to keep prices at a certain level. OPEC countries don't sell oil directly to any individual countries like the United States or Great Britain/etc. They sell oil on an open market, from which any country can buy it.

That said, the Iraq isn't even near the top in millions of barrels produced per day. I think they're capable of somewhere around 3 million barrels. Saudi Arabia produces somewhere around 10 million barrels or more per day and is capable of much more. That means if Iraq decides to go rogue and raise its prices, Saudi Arabia can lower its prices and more than compensate. That's the way the politics of oil work in the Middle East. Iraq can't really do that though, because we're occupying them.

That being said, I still agree that we should make the move to switch to Ethanol as quickly as possible.

[Loochy88]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487600

[02PewterBird]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

and wouldnt you change the filter along with everything to convert to biodiesel, and its pretty sweet to be able to go to the closest mcdonalds or whatever to fill it up again

Biodiesel isn't pure cooking oil. It's made with alcohol and other chemicals and requires a special system to process it. It's also often mixed with normal diesel to form a blend (80% normal diesel is common) that can be run in regular engines without issues. The clogging up the fuel system (usually just the filter) issue comes from biodiesel actually cleaning out the lines, but it's not a permanent issue.

I know a little about the stuff, but it's just from doing a little side work on a project at school to get school owned vehicles to it. They're not going to run on pure biodiesel though.

[LD]

Re: E85 (Ethanol) and the GM 3800

Anyways, it's estimated that we have 1,000 million barrells left on earth (known) and another 1,000 million left (unfound so far).

i think this statistic is a little off since just the USA uses around 20 million per day
that means in less than 2 months we will be completely out of oil

edit:
found this

A primary source for worldwide reserves estimates is the Oil & Gas Journal (OGJ).[1] OGJ estimates that at the beginning of 2004, worldwide reserves were 1.27 trillion barrels of oil