Michael Schumacher

[Fireball27]

Re: Michael Schumacher

i could argue that he wasnt the best driver ever... he was indeed one of the very best, but come on.. he raced his entire career in a league where only 4-6 guys are competitive and have a shot at winning a race every time out. if he would have gotten stuck in a minardi (or something similar) he could not have won all those races. did he have to be rediculously good to make some of those cars handle? of course. does he hold basically every major record that matters in F1? yup! but just cause he holds records in the most technological series out there doesnt mean that someone in a lesser technology bases series is a worse driver. I'd make a case that rally racers are far better drivers than F1, as they race on all surfaces, in all weathers, on roads that they barely know and are sometimes inches wider than their car.

Sorry for the double post... i didn't feel like editing.

Ever heard of the cream always rises to the top? He was/is the best driver (on road), and being in the best car is not an excuse, its just a fact. He drove the best car, because he was the best driver. Thats the way the buisness works, always has. Look back to the early nineties and Ayrton Senna (once widely regarded as the best), he won 3 world championships for McLaren in 4 years, and then in 1992 he lost. Not because he was the worst, but because his car was inferior to that of Nigel Mansell (FTMFW!!), same thing happend in 93 except he lost to Prost. So what happend? Like delicious cream he found his way back to the top (team) and ended up at Williams (the team that had bested him the previous two years). I think most people would agree that he'd have won a 4th championship if not for his untimely death.

You see where i'm going? Anybody whos been champion of anything, knows that the hardest part is staying on top. Schumacher has been on top, been the best in the world, 7 (possibly 8) seperate times. A feat previously unheard of... and this in the top class of his sport. For Formula One is the best of the best, the pinnacle, the zenith, the buck stops there, there is no way that you can go any further up the ladder. So NO, no there is not a better driver out there in a lesser series, otherwise they'd already be at the top. Its like that old saying: To be the best, you've got to beat the best.. and thats precisley what he's done. I say Kudos to him :)

(I will however agree about the Rally drivers... however, everybody knows that they're not really human at all. So its an unfair comparison ;) )

[HokieBird]

Re: Michael Schumacher

I think that while the technology makes the cars run faster laps and handle better, it doesnt make the job of driving the car to its limit any easier.

What about traction control? The teams tell their drivers to not feather the throttle out of turns. They tell them to mash the gas on the way out and let the electronics sort it all out.

[V6Bob]

Re: Michael Schumacher

What about traction control? The teams tell their drivers to not feather the throttle out of turns. They tell them to mash the gas on the way out and let the electronics sort it all out.

Nigel Mansell line, some years back, on the start of an F1 race:

"The guy who gets to the first corner first is the guy with the best computer programmer."

For me Schumachers career will always be tainted by the fact he wrecked, or tried to wreck, guys to win, or try to win, some of those championships. Had his teammates pull over so he could win. Stalled his car on the track this year at Monaco so that no one could beat his qualifying time. Really low class move, at least he got penalized for that one. He's a good driver; as a person, not so much.

So it would have been fun to have Schumacher in NASCAR. He'd have made Tony Stewart look like a pussycat.

[Camaro Dom]

Re: Michael Schumacher

i saw that in Monaco on Speed Network. i thought it was so low class it was funny. but then agian, yeah, he shouldn'ta done dat.

[camaroman1181]

Re: Michael Schumacher

he thrived in a series where on track passes were almost non existant. sure, he has to get his car around the track the fastest, and they are some of the most advanced technology in the world... but just cause he has the most tech doesnt mean he personally is the best. The level of grip his car has is almost unfathonable. His car's aero package is set up to nto allow anyone to draft him, preventing anyone to pass him ( as is everyone elses in F1)... Is he one of the best at taking a top of the line technical car very fast around an immaculate paved road coarse with the absolute pinnacle of technology and team support? yes, of course. but to say hes the best ever, when there are soo many things F1 doest allow him to do, or allow him to display those types of driving skills is presumptuous.

I'd still put elite rally racers against any other racers in the world, simply due to the variety of obstacles, surfaces, and conditons that they race in. ice, rain, snow, mud, paved, cobblestone, fog, even water crossings, on unknown roads that are one lane wide thru forrests, around mountians inches form the shear drops, flying over jumps.. even dodging roaming herds of animals... AND THESE GUYS NEVER BLINK!? All with technology barely one step below that of F1... F1 just aint even close...

Schumacher was great. undoubtedly. but putting the over used "best ever" tag on him just isn't accurate.

[Fbody3400]

Re: Michael Schumacher

So what? It is possible to pass, if he were to make a mistake, he would lose time on a lap. So he drives every lap to almost perfection, hard to do.

[Fireball27]

Re: Michael Schumacher

he thrived in a series where on track passes were almost non existant. sure, he has to get his car around the track the fastest, and they are some of the most advanced technology in the world... but just cause he has the most tech doesnt mean he personally is the best. The level of grip his car has is almost unfathonable. His car's aero package is set up to nto allow anyone to draft him, preventing anyone to pass him ( as is everyone elses in F1)... Is he one of the best at taking a top of the line technical car very fast around an immaculate paved road coarse with the absolute pinnacle of technology and team support? yes, of course. but to say hes the best ever, when there are soo many things F1 doest allow him to do, or allow him to display those types of driving skills is presumptuous.

I'd still put elite rally racers against any other racers in the world, simply due to the variety of obstacles, surfaces, and conditons that they race in. ice, rain, snow, mud, paved, cobblestone, fog, even water crossings, on unknown roads that are one lane wide thru forrests, around mountians inches form the shear drops, flying over jumps.. even dodging roaming herds of animals... AND THESE GUYS NEVER BLINK!? All with technology barely one step below that of F1... F1 just aint even close...

Schumacher was great. undoubtedly. but putting the over used "best ever" tag on him just isn't accurate.

Undoubtably, comparing F1 today to F1 50 years ago is like comparing Squid to tables. None the less the FIA feels that records set 50 years ago should be throw in with whats around today, so we've got no choice but to make the comparison.

As for rally.. like i already said: Those guys aren't actually human (besides we all know that Finnish people are from Mars anyway), take Sebastian Lobe: One of the better rally drivers, just goes to Le Mans (THE toughest of the tough when it comes to road races) and with just a bit of practise on a PS2 hes up and away. Probably would have won if not for the cars durability. Rediculous.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Michael Schumacher

Comparing rally racers to circuit drivers is like comparing a trumpet to a shoe horn. Rally Racing usually isn't MANY repetitive laps, like circuit endurance races are. Rally racing is about taking a car thru the elements of mother nature, on courses barely drivable to a passenger car's standards. Rally racers are the type that would probably **** their pants if they were going 220 for the first time and come INCHES to a concrete barrier. Hell, most of the F1 drivers have publicly said during the USGP that they had a deathly fear of coming out of the last turn so close to the concrete barrier at Indianapolis.

V6Bob, this is from one of the things you have said about Schumi, the comment where teammates pull over to let him win? Thats in the FIA rules. If two cars from the same team are together on the track, the car and driver with less points MUST let the driver with more points pass. I think what a lot of people misunderstand is that F1 is a TEAM racing sport. Ferrari works together with Ferrari, Mindardi with Minardi, and so forth. Thats why when a new team is created in F1, that manufacturer must provide 2 teams, no more, no less.

Fireball, I agree with you for the most part. I still don't think comparing rally drivers to circuit drivers is equal, but everything said about Schumi is true. To be the best, you have to BEAT the best, and Schumi has done that. Simply put, there hasn't been a challenger like Alonzo since Senna, and those were the only two to really run equal with Schumi. But don't mistake what I am saying, Alonzo has no where near the talent that Ayrton Senna had, but does have a much more technologically advanced car. But I can guarantee one thing, if the attitude towards Schumi at Monaco is relevant, I could name MANY things that Dale Earnhardt did in his time that would have been equally as low class, but because we are mostly American, and watch the debauchle known and modern NASCAR, most of us turned a blind eye to what he did.

And on a side note, ANYONE comparing NASCAR to F1 should be shot in the face with a salt gun.