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  • Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

    Camaro write up/story

    Well per request I will document the procedures I went thru, parts, labor, etc to the best of my knowledge. Let’s start in June of 06’. Well up to this point I had done a lot of supporting mods and did not have a vast understanding of motors, inner workings, etc. So at this point I had done SLP ram air, MSD coils, took it to a shop for Pacesetters and Magnaflow…that was about it. Well one of my friends, Tim (blown00) was in the market for a new car and ended up getting a GTP. Needless to say the GTP shut me down big time and that’s when I decided to make to the move to start going turbo. Shortly after being dealt this loss I began talking to many people, signed up on this very forum, and started parts acquiring. But most importantly, I read and read and read. I tried to learn everything possible about anything concerning our motors. Once I had talked to enough people and gained enough knowledge, I took the plunge and wrote my first email to Lance at Abbott Racing Heads.

    I asked one or two questions about the stage 3 heads, and before I knew it I ended up with a set of heads and ported intakes. My next move was to acquire a cam, for this I went with Stattama stage 3 turbo cam (don’t know why I didn’t go with the stage 4 right off the bat.) I also bought 65lb fuel injectors, double roller timing chain, 1.7 comp cam pro mag roller rockers, hardened push rods, and a complete gasket kit for the build. It was at this time I also bought Jessie (Radcat’s) turbo system (the first one ever built by FFF.) Now at this time my knowledge of the motor was just that….knowledge, I had never actually torn into one. So I sought out someone to do the head, cam and turbo swap for me. I came across a guy who built GN’s basically for a living. He gave me an awesome quote for the work, but when my cylinder heads came in…all my calls went unanswered. I sat at work one night and just said “**** it, I can do this ****.” So that night I called up Tim and we began tearing down the car of the swap.

    First of all what a pain in the ***, we were very unfamiliar with the motor at this time and were lost for a start….After a day or 2 of work we had removed the throttle body, upper intake, fuel rail. The most major set back during this first build was the engine removal bracket on the passenger side rear of the motor. We struggled with this single bracket forever (two days.) Finally got this bracket off and continued onwards. From here on out the rest of the build went pretty smooth for the most part, got the heads off in a timely manner, removed crank bolt, front cover, cam bolt, plate etc. We had the car up and running in just a little over a week, which for someone who at the most has done oil and intake, I was pretty impressed. The car ran great, the head and cam package made such a difference it was unbelievable. The first thing I noticed was that on the launch, my wheels practically wanted to hop right off of the car. The car shook so bad, that anything I had tucked into my visor spilled out. It was a this time I did, Edlebrock torque arm, AMI Lca’s, panhard, and KYB AGX adjustable with a new set of Sumituma hhrt4 wheels to go with it. The car gripped awesome after this, with the addition of the MSD DIS 4, and a few other small odds and ends, I drove the car for just about 2,000 miles.

    It was now September and there were plenty of friends itching to go the track. Seeing as how I was going to be putting the turbo kit in within the next few weeks, I figured it would be a good idea to try to get a baseline to where my car was just heads, cam, and ported intakes. In my first run ever, I did no burnt out, just went straight up to the line against a moded srt4 none the less I figured I would take him. Now in the mean time I had done just a bit of tuning, messed with my advance, adjusted shift points, etc. I believe at the time I was shifting around 6300 rpms. Anyways, the tree goes down and we take off, I had him real well off the line with a 2.0xx 60’…..as the car was ready to make its shift out of second (or should have been) I noticed it really start to lag. The car made it up to 6,500 rpms, before I had to let off so the car would shift. Hit second, and got back on it, still noticing a complete lack of power. As the car was coming up on 6300 rpms again from the 2-3 shift I noticed the same thing start to happen, again, I had to let off to allow the car to make the shift. Well at this point clearly I was worried, the car lagged really bad, didn’t shift…..but none the less ran a 15.3. I pulled it over after the race and started to hear the beginning of what I can only describe as a high pitched metal on metal pinging noise. Instantly I shut the car off and went to check the oil level. Of course the car was hot as hell, and with the crappy dipstick, I could not get an accurate reading. I figured it best to just add oil, and retune. I added 1.5 qrts, took my advance WAY the hell down, and adjusted all **** points to 4000 rpms. Well the car lasted for a week until it finally gave out on me and spun a bearing and seized up.

    It was at this point I decided I wasn’t really that pissed, I wanted a motor making 8.5:1 compression anyways, and unless I gutted the L36 it wasn’t gonna happen. I got back on the phones and called Ed Morad, a large supplier to the GTP guys, cause I had this crazy idea of dropping in a L32 (04-05 gtp motor, 3800 series 3, 8.5:1 compression, forged connecting rods.) I picked up an L32 with only 13,000 miles on it. While the motor was still on the crate I installed the new Stattama stage 4 turbo cam, and oer lifters. Also now I had done some talking to Tiago at force fed fabs, and had decided to go with a forward sweeping header setup in favor of the under the K turbo kit I already had. We raced through the tear down, and had the motor out of the car within like a week or so, it pretty much all went off without a hitch. We removed the entire top end of the motor, and took both the motor and tranny at once……that would be exactly where my luck would take a horrible turn. Well after getting the motor and tranny out, the car sat for about 2 weeks until I could find help to start putting it back in. Well then after 2 weeks I decided I wanted to do stall converter, so I emailed Fuddle racing for a 3800 stall…..and I ended up going with a 4000. Ok so got the converter was completely unaware at the time of how to install one correctly. At this time I had a full tranny build kit that I planned on using. It was supposed to re-enforce the transmission up to 500 hp 600 ft-lb tq. Anyways, I didn’t have the time to take the tranny to a shop and have it built with this kit. The plan was to just put it back in as is, and then worry about having it dropped out and built at a later date. In the process of mating the tranny to the motor, we noticed nothing was lining up right, we even heard a snap all of a sudden…..bottom line something was wrong. Upon further research, I realized I had put the converter on incorrectly (by putting it on the flex plate, rather than sliding it on the transmission first.) It was a complete Noob mistake, but in the end I more than likely had broken my transmission pump. Well now the dilemma, get a new tranny pump, and take it to a shop with the build kit…..or….contact this new company named performabuilt transmission and look

  • #2
    Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

    at the prospect of getting a new tranny. Well a few emails exchanged with them and I ended up going with their level 2 transmission.

    The tranny arrived, the converter was put on correctly, and before you know it the motor and tranny combo found its way back into my car. From this point I had to replace the entire top end. However, when it came down to putting my heads back on, I noticed something I missed earlier. One of my roller rockers was completely ****ed up. The tip had a massive chunk missing out of it, the retainer was gouged. When I looked even more closely I realized I have a broken valve guide and a bent valve as well. Once I discovered this, it was really no secret as to how the car was losing oil. I called Abbott, got replacements for the broken parts and also contacted ZZP for a new set of roller rockers. I took the new parts to a local shop where they re-valve jobbed the valve port in question, and once again I was off to the races. In the mean time during this I was working on re-hooking my transmission up, when I made another discovery. My stock tranny cooler lines would not fit into the performabuilt transmission. I wrote performabuilt back and forth for like 3 weeks, we both couldn’t figure out how this could be, how the thread size was different, etc. Then one night I went out in the garage, cleaned the threads off as best as I possible could and was finally able to get it to re-thread into the tranny. The line had been bent when I removed the motor the first time, and that line needed to go back into the transmission in the exact same way it came out. Ok so finally got that all squared away and continued working on the top end. Well when it came to putting the heads back down I realized we misplaced some of the ARP studs and had to wait and order a whole new set. Waited for those to come in, replaced the heads, lower intake, and upper intake. Around this time I also got my walbro 255 intank and that install took quite a considerable amount of time as well 3-4 nights. Also misplaced a throttle cable and had to re-order one off ebay. Came back and went to work with the turbo now that the top end was finished. Everything went really well with the hotside on the turbo kit, headers, collector pipe, waste gate, turbo, downpipe etc. All went on within about 2-3 nights. After I had this done I just ran oil lines from the sending unit to the turbo, then out the bottom of the turbo back to the pan.

    After about 4 months or so I was finally ready to fire this car up!!!!! (or so I thought). I went to fire the car for the first time and got nothing. And I mean NOTHING, I was pretty sure the battery could be dead, so I went and tried a new one. With the new battery in, I turned the key again, and quickly found out I had a bad starter. Went out the next day or so later and got a new starter and went to try again…this time the motor cranked but still nothing, tried it again, nothing. WHAT THE ****! It’s at this point in a novice engine builder’s career where you really think you have ****ed something up and you will never find it. I asked around and got the 3 usual answers, fuel, air, and spark. One of the three was missing. Well I first pulled the plugs to check for fuel, which there was, they were brand new spark plugs as well. There was obviously air making its way into the motor as the ATB was opening and closing properly. Some suggestions were that the timing could possibly be off. For the life of me, I could not remember setting up timing, and some believed that it was off 180*, thus explaining the lack of combustion, and the lack of hearing the motor shatter. So I pulled the motor apart, funny side story, for the upper intake we did a RTV gasket, BIG MISTAKE!!! That stuff holds so well, I needed an engine hoist to separate the intakes. Broke them free continued tearing down the top end and got down to the heads. At this point I dropped the Exhaust cross over pipe pulled the front cover and took a look at the timing. I used a straw to feel the piston movements as I didn’t want to have to pull the heads if it wasn’t necessary. Spun the crank by hand a few times, feeling the movements, making sure they jived with the valve movements….and they did. Well I sewed the car all back together again and once again was stumped. I went and checked for spark next, and sure enough there was no issues there either, did get shocked once or twice though. Well I was running out of ideas, so I went up to Sears and bought a fuel pressure tester and compression tester. Started with eh fuel pressure tester first, and by a miracle!!! There was no fuel pressure, I found my issue. I pulled my fuel pump and sure enough a line I had used to replace the stock existing line had popped off under the pressure. I fixed the line, dropped the pump and went back to start it again. Nothing. Went back into the fuel tank pulled the pump again, and the fuel line had popped off again. This time I completely replaced the line and the clamps all together. Went back to start it, cranked a few times then FINALLY turned over. I almost died it had been months of working on the car and finally it started.

    Well this was all done with just the hot side of the turbo hooked up. So the next thing I did was start in on routing the cold side plumbing. Let me tell you this was not easy, the kit that I bought was designed for a -97….I had to make some modifications to make it work with my 98+. A few cuts here and there, having to find several couplers and T-clamps (which actually took a long time) I finally had the cold side routed Started the car up with the hopes of taking it for a spin, well, I started the car….and she went no where. Put it in reverse and got nothing. Once again….what the ****? Could not figure it out, spent a week trying different things with the transmission cables, tranny fluid, and different connections on the tranny until I finally broke down and had enough with the car. I called up my uncle once again, who owns a shop himself and he recommended me to a transmission guy. Had the car towed out there.

    I explained the problem to the guy who was very knowledgeable. Now in the mean time I had talked with performabuilt regarding the problem, and they were convinced that I had broken off the tabs on the front pump of my transmission because the torque converter had not seated itself properly. So I paid like $200 for a new pump and took it to this guy. Well the car sat there overnight and he called me the next morning and told me that, the pump that was on the tranny and the new one they sent were not the same, however the one they sent was, in fact, the correct one…..he also said that I had NOT broken the front pump, rather the flex plate that was on the L32 was more shallow than the one on the l36. So he got me an L36 flex plate and I was good to go. However, once again, he said he tried to start the car, and it did not fire. So once again she was towed home so I could take a look at the fuel situation. Pulled the fuel pump to take a look, and I saw nothing. Went to start it up again, same thing….pulled the fuel pump another time to take a closer detailed look and found a hairline split in the hose I had used for the fuel line. It could not with stand the fuel pressure and cracked. Went on the ebay and waited a week for my new marine grade fuel line to come in. Came in, got it in ( I can now pull a fuel pump and replace the line inside of 15-20 min.)

    Fired it up and we were now in motion, who could believe it? Well the motion didn’t last very long as I quickly discovered there was coolant and oil mixing somehow. Drove the car like 2 miles, noticed the problem and tore down the top end. I cleaned everything up very well made sure I took my time re-assembling so that there would be no issues. So took a few days to do that. Put it back together, started it and got the same results. So I tore down again, this time I took the cylinder heads in to be pressure tested and they passed with flying colors. Once again, paid extra attention to cleaning everything up properly reassembled and got the same results. TORE DOWN AGAIN (got so good at it by this point I can remove a cylinder head in under 2 hours by myself and under 1.5 hrs with help.) this time I removed all the head studs, re-teflon taped them all and reassembled again. This time I noticed a little bit of improvement, but still the same issues. Finally I decided to replace the head gasket, even though it was brand new MLS I took it out and replaced it with one of my old MLS gaskets and this seemed to solve the problem.

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    • #3
      Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

      Ok we are to the point now where the car is getting better, the turbo is still not draining oil the best as is evident by blue smoke that’s coming out the exhaust. So I started to work on the turbo feed and return oil lines. I first started with the feed line because I noticed oil making its way out the top slowly, so I figured I had not taped the fitting up well enough. After completing fixing the return line I took it out for a spin, about a half mile away from my house the engine bay erupted in smoke. I pulled over figuring I had blown a head gasket….that was not the case. The oil feed line had worked its way onto my headers, and the heat had melted the line and caused it to open. So oil was spraying violently out of there. even caused a small fire on the underside of the hood. Well the spirits we’re down but I fixed it anyways and wrapped the Y pipe. But by this time I had had enough, so much of my time had already gone into making this car right, and now after having this small instance occur I had the feeling of being a little unsafe in the car. And I don’t want to be driving a car in which I feel I have to keep my eyes peeled at every gauge, every noise, everything thru an entire ride just waiting to see if something goes wrong again. So that’s where the story ends, the car is currently being demoded, I may keep the car yet, but certainly not turbocharged.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

        long read.. i only read the last sentence.. haha. sucks though :(
        Dave:
        00 Supercharged Camaro - RIP
        97 Turbo Camaro - Sold

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

          Damn.. i don't have the time to read all that.. so i'll just wait for the sarcastic insult that is sure to follow :stp:


          Originally posted by SSMOWS6
          i mean, you can always fly wes out there and since he's a tool sometimes, fashion him into a plow for the maro
          R.I.P. '07 Pats
          Still... 18-1 > 1 and done

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          • #6
            Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

            i read it. but then again, i talk to dan on a reg basis so its all stuff i already knew about anyways.

            current car- 95 Trans am- bolt ons, parked and collecting dust. why? because **** it

            Follow me!
            http://www.twitch.tv/optimusprymrib
            Or this

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            • #7
              Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

              its more for Wes, but a good read if you're bored. kidna sums up everyones questions as to why i dont continue.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                Originally posted by UDLOSE98
                its more for Wes, but a good read if you're bored. kidna sums up everyones questions as to why i dont continue.
                Its sad to see you go out like this and not have the car where you want it, been watching your project sence last July. Now on the other hand, Wes has a handful of mods, and information that he can get from you to use on his new stroker project. Hope all goes well with your new car. Now to get reading on the above info.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                  I read it all...

                  I want to build up my L36 someday (hopefully within the next year)...Just doing heads, cam, valvetrain etc...

                  This gives me some hope, as you were completely new and it seemed that things didn't go bad until the FI and heavy modding started...but then again, I can see myself ruining my car...

                  Good write-up, very useful
                  1999 Camaro Z/28
                  1973 Firebird Formula

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                  • #10
                    Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                    you got that far and stoped your down to the little stuff and you quit what the **** you spent all that money and your stopping now i admire you for what you've learned and done but stoping now makes this a sad and pitiful waste of time and money what the **** where are you

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                      Originally posted by auto666
                      you got that far and stoped your down to the little stuff and you quit what the **** you spent all that money and your stopping now i admire you for what you've learned and done but stoping now makes this a sad and pitiful waste of time and money what the **** where are you
                      I think he's trying to say IF, just IF he gets what seemed to be continuously repeating problems worked out, he would still not feel comfortable to drive the car, yet alone push it to it's full potential...seems like all the **** adds up at the bottom and it's nickel and diming him to death without giving him satisfaction...that's what i got out of it
                      1999 Camaro Z/28
                      1973 Firebird Formula

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                        Originally posted by badinfluenceRS
                        I think he's trying to say IF, just IF he gets what seemed to be continuously repeating problems worked out, he would still not feel comfortable to drive the car, yet alone push it to it's full potential...seems like all the **** adds up at the bottom and it's nickel and diming him to death without giving him satisfaction...that's what i got out of it
                        and i can understand that its discuraging and expensive but the big money has already been spent you just have to go a little farther you can do it i think we all believe in you and your project just finish it push through and rock the v6 world

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                        • #13
                          Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                          i didnt know you had had alllllll that trouble. i imagine about anyone would be in your soes at this point if not a few months ago.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                            Originally posted by badinfluenceRS
                            I think he's trying to say IF, just IF he gets what seemed to be continuously repeating problems worked out, he would still not feel comfortable to drive the car, yet alone push it to it's full potential...seems like all the **** adds up at the bottom and it's nickel and diming him to death without giving him satisfaction...that's what i got out of it
                            that pretty much nails it right there. Plus i look at where gas is going and on a 4000 stall, it just doesnt make it practical when you dont have a DD.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Very Lenghty Project Write-Up

                              I didnt watch your build very closely, but my view is that you tried way to much as once. I feel you need to take much smaller steps to make a fast car if you are not a professional mechanic or you will be in over your head.

                              Plus with the cam, rockers, heads, torque converter, tranny. The drivability of the car would not be good. I am almost positive you would have been very satisfied with a stock engine running a turbo setup on 10-12 lbs of boost and you would have money left in the bank.
                              92 S10 3800 A4(96)<br />1/4: 14.374 @ 92.25 w/ 1.976 60\'<br />Turbo and 12\'s Coming Soon!

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