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How bout corporations and CEO's take a paycut from the billion dollar year they had and stop being greedy. Maybe if they didn't take so much from the backs of the labor, there wouldn't be any higher prices.
CEOs get paid what they do based on supply and demand. I'll argue the point no further because this thread obviously has you worked up.
Originally posted by Mogobs30th
God Damn, more and more I read your posts, the more and more I think you are one greedy mofo.
Think what you wish, but I suspect most of my friends/family would disagree. I'll save that debate for another thread.
One, that supervisor is the problem, not the union. That supervisor let you go for other reasons than just what you stated. What you said is simply interpretation and opinion, and probably isn't valid in the first place.
I wasn't given a choice. I'm a hard worker who refuse to beat down on the people who have less seniority than me. I was an excellent supervisor who cares about people.
Union reps are jerks. I did nothing wrong and I didn't deserve to be kicked without any reason - all because I was on probation and they can choose to keep me or not. When I was kicked out 6 people didn't show up to work the next day just to protest.
Plus when I was hired for that company I wasn't given a choice. Here's another thing those who do not choose union would still have to pay. Those who are temp. and are not represented by the union still have pay. THAT'S PLAIN WRONG!!
Take this as an example. My dad works for Continental Airlines as an airplane mechanic. He makes good money. In 1991 his company was forced into union and the airline almost went belly up. Massive layoffs. Airfares went up-stocks went down, revenues are down. Continental is struggling and it's only hope is to merge with another struggling Airline in order to survive.
Shall we talk about GM? Toyota & Honda, Hyundai companies here in America are not union but they make excellent products and they pay their employees well with good benefits.
Here's another example that's happening here in S. Calif. grocery stores like Ralph's, Albertson, Lucky's, and Safeways. Are gone because of union strikes. People just want more pay. Massive walk out which forced the stores to suffer.
6 of these stores in my areas are gone. Lucky's, Safeways, Ralphs doesn't exist anymore. Why because their too expensive. Their revenues dropped. What's flourishing in my area are non-union grocery stores. You can see unions picketing them and forcing them to join the union. I'm glad they didn't.
I've worked for UPS, Calif. State University, UCR, and Public School. I see what Unions are doing. Last May our UCR union rep went to Sacramento to negotiate more pay. I found out that I have 25% increase in my salary but the students tuition increased by 12% and their housing, and books hiked up to 10%.
A dozen more stories to tell-but all in all unions are leeches.
Most of your opinions I agree with but this time I'm not quite seeing eye to eye. But thats cool, thats why I served our country to give everyone that voice and have an opinion. I'm glad the union is working out for you. Dead serious. I'm glad whenever anything works out for anyone, but just because you've had nohing but great experiences doesn't mean that there's not bad ones out there. Some people say GM has the best cars and never a lick of problems while others say they are riddled with problems. It's all about personal experiences. In this case were talking about unions, tommorrow who knows what. I'm not sure in Kristens case her union would be as good as yours as she stated what type of co-workers she had and they wanted the union. I wish the maintance guys where I worked were in your union. We put a work order in 6 months ago to change lights out and there still doing the finger pointing game of whos job it is and if we do it ourself they'll file a grievence and get 2.5 hours of OT. So thats where I get its great for lazy people. I'm SURE there are people in unions that are not lazy and don't dought you that your union is that way as I don't know. I along with others were just stating our experiences with them. Once again, in all serious I hope it keeps working out for you and your union and I hope it works out for those of us who decide to not be for a union. I just want America to be one happy family and not have any illegal immigrants. :stp: (new thread possibly)
wes, I work in the auto industry as an engineer and i agree with you about the IBEW. But rest that i cant say i agree...
the thing you dont mention is the difference between the IBEW and, say, the UAW is that the IBEW makes you take all sorts of tests and courses to get your apprenticeship/journeymanship. The UAW doesn't. Basically, the IBEW encourages its members to have more value to the employer than a non-union employee. I know if i ever had to have to have electrical work done on my house or business i'll have IBEW men do it because I know that they're well trained and they expect excellence. 90 days in a factory gets u in the UAW. thats it. and its not like you could work there and not join because the other employees will FORCE you to join. The UAW is just a league of workers. The IBEW is a league of WELL TRAINED workers. You had old threads going ON AND ON about how much BS you had to do to get into the IBEW and how glad you were when it was over. Thats the difference.
If unions existed to guarantee higher quality work for thier employers, they'd have alot fewer problems than they do. If the UAW worked WITH the companies to try and solve ergonomic issues in the plants and guarantee high quality workmanship... well maybe they'd only have 2 strikes in their history too. But in reality, they work against the companies.
The best way to describe the UAW (coming from my uncle who's been in a Ford plant the last 15 years) is the UAW is the defense attorney and the company is the prosecutor. If you screw up and get fired, the union rep tries to keep your job while the company builds a case before an umpire to get rid of you. That makes no sense, especially because the UAW is all about everyone getting paid the same, veteran or new hire.
The key is that I, as a theoretical employer, would rather have IBEW guys doing my electrical stuff because I know it'll be done right the first time, and if it isn't, they're butts are on the line. But i'd rather have non-union manufacturing people because I'd view them as nothing but a threat to my business and my bottom line without any tangible benefit. I'm not an butthole. I dont want anyone's children to go hungry. thats just capitalism. Communism works in theory but capitalism works in practice.
Do I think unions have a place in this world? Hell yes! Do i think that they need to change from being essentially gangs? yes. I was thinking about this the other day, swear to God... If the UAW took the approach of the IBEW and guaranteed excellent workmanship and an honest day's labor... well then the companies would be jumping all over union employees. Instead, the UAW just demands more money and/or benefits for the pure and simple reason that they number a few hundred thousand.
lets face it... we're in a society where 60% of people have bachelors degrees. 100 years ago when unions were formed, maybe 5% of people went to college. Jobs in this country are becoming more and more specialized. We have robots to do manufacturing jobs now. Skills are whats in demand. Now, the unskilled laborer has alot less pull than he used to. You NEED to emphasize quality now. Unskilled jobs are going overseas and the workers need to make themselves valuable again.
This is not unlike in the early 20th century when a machine could do the work of 10 men in one day for a fraction of the total cost. People would bomb or sabotage the machines but in the end, the real long term solution is to embrace the machines and learn how to repair them, or how to wire them, or something else.
America is no longer a manufacturing economy. we are a service (knowledge) economy. this is WELL documented.
I fail to see the difference between [unskilled laborer vs. robot] and [farm hand vs. tractor] the tractor did the work of other men, "freeing" thier time to pursue other things.
Like i said, I dont want people's children to go hungry or without medical care. I wish every person could have equal opportunities. I truely do, but unskilled unions (NOT your IBEW or other construction unions) hold people back. They allow them to work for years without furthering thier knowledge and then once they finally reach the point where they cant hang onto their jobs any longer, then they're completely screwed. If they'd gone to trade school or a community college, and waited another 4 years to get married and have kids, they wouldn't have to worry about dinner tonight.
Last clarification: its supply and demand. If you supply good labor, you will be in demand. If you supply the same labor i could hire off the streets of India but force me to hire you and pay you more, sooner or later that market inefficiency is going to collapse and you're gonna feel the hurt.
*I dont mean to rag on the UAW... there are plenty of other unions that'd fall into that same category. The UAW is just what I know the most about.*
Kristen, I, personally would not join that union. 2 reasons: 1, you said its based off of the lazy people. It'll crumble. 2, the size of the "union" you're talking about (if i understand you correctly) will just be the workers in your location. They'll fire everyone and get new people overnight because they're way too small. Again, bad news bears.
Just my .02
2000 3.8L Camaro A4 Pewter Y87<br />K&N Filter, SLP Ram Air kit, Eibach Pro Kit, Flowmaster 80 series, Silverstars, NGK plugs and MSD Super Conductor Wires, Electric Water Pump
well i work at a nursing home. The nurses are trying to bring in a union. i am in the nursing dept and they are going to come after me hard to join cause i will be one of the main votes. i'm at a BIG crossroads right now.
what are your feelings on unions?
You asked for it :D
Unions HAD a place in this country and still do in SOME places.
As stated before, unions were created to protect employees from harmful, dangerous conditions that put them at risk. Those that still have DANGEROUS jobs where management could make them risk bodily harm, I'll accept unions being in those shops.
The rest... a bunch of money hungry leeches that can't do a real job to save their collective asses!
I don't see bodily harm happening in your line of work.
If you thought your co-workers were difficult to work with before, bring the union in... next thing you hear will be:
ok thank you guys. i now have a better point of view of pro's and con's which now lay at my feet, i know that there is alot to be done before it gets to me in full force.
thank you all for your input, it's been most helpful. hope no one got tooo ticked at this thread.*wes*
I believe in unions but it all depends on the company they work with. If the company treats employees fair and pay good then no union is really needed. I'm a member of the UFCW for a local grocery store. Unions down south are weak. Also here in Oklahoma and other states as well they are 'right to work' states which gives free-loaders a way to bypass paying dues but still be able to get most benefits.
Mogobs, my dads with the IBEW as well and loves it.
Check out my cardomain site!<br /><a href=\"http://members.cardomain.com/99pewterv6\" target=\"_blank\">My Car</a>
Is the union trying to get in SEIU 1199 HEALTH CARE WORKERS EAST? If so that is the same union we have at Johns Hopkins. If that is the union we should talk!
...
lets face it... we're in a society where 60% of people have bachelors degrees. ... Unskilled jobs are going overseas and the workers need to make themselves valuable again...
Kristen, I, personally would not join that union. 2 reasons: 1, you said its based off of the lazy people. It'll crumble. 2, the size of the "union" you're talking about (if i understand you correctly) will just be the workers in your location. They'll fire everyone and get new people overnight because they're way too small. ...
Just my .02
Im in a union...and I hate it...Not only do they take union dues from me every month...I feel they dont do anything for me...Im a good worker, and I have knowledge of the law so I can protect myself fine...If anything, the union has slowed my progress in working my way up the ladder...
well i just found out that we are going to the vote. i think that it will be on friday. i can't wait till this is over, either way, as long things calm down
well i just found out that we are going to the vote. i think that it will be on friday. i can't wait till this is over, either way, as long things calm down
Calm down where? at your work or on this message posting? lol
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