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The only thing I can say is everyone has choices. Whether it be your mom to the person stuck at wal mart. There's plenty of oppurtunities for everyone it's just a matter of applying yourself and putting forth the effort to make it happen. Hell I use to pull two full time jobs between burger king and discount/advance auto. I knew that wasn't the way I wanted to spend my life so I did something about it. I'm at a point now that I'm saying I want to do better so I'm working towards that. My single mom raised me and my brother and kept working towards higher and higher goals because she knew she could do better. Everyone has choices it's a matter of what your willing to accept that determines the outcomes.
You got me on the NAFTA thing, I don't have enough knowledge with it to make an intelligent rebuttal. As for the politics I don't support any party or any puppet. I don't send any more money than is taken from me, i.e. taxes.
My argument is purely from a bottom line business stand point. Cut overhead increase profits.
Why be upset at the board that's making seven figures? They busted their *** to make the company what it is. You wouldn't have the job you do if it wasn't for some white collar guy taking care of the logistics and paperwork. He's getting paid six figures do you despise him? He's providing you with the job to take care of yourself, you should tell him to his face and see what his response his. If I see someone getting paid more than me I don't get pissed I figure out what it will take, what I can do to get myself there. If your happy with busting your *** and doing something menial your whole life hey man more power to you your exactly what the puppets of this country want, more robots. I personally would rather be the one pushing the buttons making all the little robots do the work. Your what the politicians feed off of, your the reason they have those cute little town hall style meetings, to draw out robots like yourself to believe their hype.
Better American ingenuity? You believe that? The US is ranked outside the top 10 in overall education out of the top 24 industrialized nations. I think we're down to 14 now but were as low as 18. But wait a second by promoting American Ingenuity your inadvertanly putting seven figures in these guys pockets. Anyone smart enough to revolutionize a company is going to be worth seven figures easy.
What do I do? I'm in purchasing. I'm one of the white collar guys that makes sure you got the **** you need to do your job right. Don't tell me you buy everything and you get nothing from a "home office" of some sort. Here's an intresting fact for ya. The purchasing director for GM or Toyota (can't remember which now) gets paid a million a year. Overpaid right? except when you consider he's responsible for negotiating all the contracts to get the **** to every plant in the US. All the **** to make sure the union guys have work to do when they show up to work.
Can we end this useless argument? Your a blue collar union guy I'm a white collar get the **** done all I care about is the bottom line guy. Point is it could go around and around with no resolution. I'll buy you a beer you buy me a beer and all is done.
Let's flip a coin. Heads I get tail, Tails I get head.
I didn't read through them all, just enough to see what it was referring too. That could be said about every major corporation throughout history. Your now getting into me saying I support them working people to death, never once said that. All I simply was saying is their business model, buy cheap sell cheap is a model that works well. I could probably find a thousand articles to support how highly people think of wal mart. There was a ton of positive press that came out because they were cashing stimulus checks instantly for people so they didn't have to wait. Point being you could find both negative and positive press about every company in the world, I'm sure the one you work for hasn't had all positive press and has had some type of legal dispute or litigation. It's now getting too arguiing semantics and I'm tired, have to wake up early to go purchase stuff for the blue collar guys that need stuff.
Let's flip a coin. Heads I get tail, Tails I get head.
I'll add this comment seperatley as my own food for thought.
Where I work is not union and the funny thing is the blue collar guys are not brainwashed with this blue & white collar difference. They need something they come see me, I need something I go see them. No problems no issues. My point being unions have a way of injecting problems and issues that don't otherwise exist and are about as useful as politics and religion. They cause nothing but problems and the world would be better without them.
Let's flip a coin. Heads I get tail, Tails I get head.
I'll add this comment seperatley as my own food for thought.
Where I work is not union and the funny thing is the blue collar guys are not brainwashed with this blue & white collar difference. They need something they come see me, I need something I go see them. No problems no issues. My point being unions have a way of injecting problems and issues that don't otherwise exist and are about as useful as politics and religion. They cause nothing but problems and the world would be better without them.
What do they do? How much do they make an hour? What do YOU make an hour? Im not in manufacturing chief, I bring a talent and a skill to the table. My talent will be paid accordingly. If your blue collar guys don't question why, then they aren't brainwashed, they're either naturally stupid, probably the ones you were referring to in an earlier post, or they don't bring anything to the table.
ALL, and I mean ALL of the materials we use in the field here in Chicago are American made, and probably more than 3/4 of it is made locally in the greater Chicagoland area. These are not products we use because they are American made, but instead, are REQUESTED by our customer, Northwestern University. BTW, I do my own purchasing from LOCAL suppliers here in Chicago (www.brookelectrical.com). We don't have purchasers, no one in my trade does, no matter the size of the company. We learn to be self sufficient. And as a purchaser, you're the middle management monkey that I would piss on when things didn't come in off the truck right. Don't overinflate your job title, its not really that important.
When your company is prepared to give your employees a real retirement plan thats NOT 401k, free health benefits, and a decent wage, you come talk to me about when unions aren't needed.
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
Sorry for the argument, but Im not going to sit back while someone who doesn't have the balls to do some real physical work, and sit there and tell me in a long winded out speech that I and everyone in my field is lazy and stupid.
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
Sorry for the argument, but Im not going to sit back while someone who doesn't have the balls to do some real physical work, and sit there and tell me in a long winded out speech that I and everyone in my field is lazy and stupid.
No it's cool.
Both of you bring alot to think about to the table.
It's nice to see people exercise their brains once in a while to develop some sort of constructive statement rather than
If politics and business didn't intermingle as you say, then why the need for corporate lobbyists? Hell, even my union has a local, state, and federal lobbyist. Who do you think contributes to these presidential campaigns? YOU? You think that $3 you give when you fill out your 1040 pays for all the political campaigns? Are you serious? Major corps are footing the bill for alot of the campaigns on BOTH sides. And if you think unions are draining US corporations, then why the HELL is UPS so successful? You wanna know why companies like GM are having problems? NAFTA!!!
BTW, what the hell do you do for a living? I ask this because I know I am union, and I know no one is simply going to hand you anything. I also think its BS that companies talk about bankruptcy while members of their own board of directors are clearing 7 digit incomes. I have no, NO sympathy for a board of directors that sends its children to private schools while my own 52 year old mother works two ****ing jobs. Sorry, no CEO is getting a tear from me. These companies have an obligation to the American public for decent wages and benefits. Maybe if corps didnt STOCKPILE large sums of money in offshore accounts so that it wouldn't be taxed (Like UPS in 2000) maybe some people would have a decent wage. If you want to outsource labor, send your whole operation overseas then. There will be real American ingenuity to pick up the slack.
I cannot for the life of me understand why you think a corporation like Wal-Mart is doing the right thing. They make HUGE windfall profits, and yet their employees are SCREWED out of benefits. Their employees are the feet in which that company walks with, the legs it stands with, and yet they treat them as if they were garbage. You wanna know why people are no longer motivated to work? BECAUSE YOU PAY THEM $7 AN HOUR WITH NO INSURANCE!!! What kind of motivation would you have to wake up and do the same thing day in and day out, without a day off because you can't afford it? Barely feed yourself and keep a roof over your head, yet these people are supposed to be satisfied while you pull the wool over their eyes of the truth of it all? ITS BULL****.
What the f*** do you do all day?
Thats some good ****. Wes for prez.
1995 Patriot Red T-Topped Z28 A4<br /><br />Mystery rebuild in progress.<br /><br />Soon to have 383 ways to beat KBreezy and Shane. :D
If you bring a skill to job that is that good you should get paid for it. You could become a consultant or start your own business and make double to triple what you are now. Yeah I realized after reading your local 134 page you buy everything, good gig at least you get some healthy writeoffs at the end of the year. Middle management piss monkey, that's a new one, been called a lot but that's new. I guess that would be your perspective, I prefer procurement expert but hey whatever works. I won't bother defending my position to you I don't think it would be worth the time typing it out. As for the blue collar guys I work with they get paid pretty well for what they do but then we don't have specialized type of labor. We hire speciality jobs out but even that isn't unionized.
That's funny the website you referenced for brookeelectrical did you notice it was recently purchased from a company called Sonepar USA, guess where they are based out of France. Guess it's not as american as you thought.
OK tired of this argument, it's pointless as hell and we both know it. Your a smart guy, I'm a middle management piss monkey it would just go back and forth and nothing would change.
The only thing I would say is based on the local 134 website it's about as left wing propaganda as I've ever read. Like I said you could find arguments to go either way you wanted though.
Piss Monkey out.
Let's flip a coin. Heads I get tail, Tails I get head.
Sorry for the argument, but Im not going to sit back while someone who doesn't have the balls to do some real physical work, and sit there and tell me in a long winded out speech that I and everyone in my field is lazy and stupid.
I don't recall saying you were lazy and stupid. I called people that don't want to get off their *** and accept what's handed to them lazy and stupid. Just read a little before you make the rebuttals. Physical work? I've done physical work most of my life, I just realized where the money is at.
Let's flip a coin. Heads I get tail, Tails I get head.
YoungSC, you talk a big game. Theoretically you're right in some of what you say. Now I dont remember reading exactly what company you work for, but I hope they're not publicly traded. I have a feeling your attitude might change when a bunch of filthy rich foreign businessmen come in with a buy out, and throw you out on your ***.
Dont think it can't happen. I sure as hell never thought anyone would come in and buy AB.
YoungSC, you talk a big game. Theoretically you're right in some of what you say. Now I dont remember reading exactly what company you work for, but I hope they're not publicly traded. I have a feeling your attitude might change when a bunch of filthy rich foreign businessmen come in with a buy out, and throw you out on your ***.
My opinion wouldn't change if I was in a position to be thrown out on my *** cause I would do it to anyone else if I was in their place. I get what your saying though, it's hard to put yourself in it unless your there. I assure you it wouldn't change my perspective at all. I work for a governmental entity so unless it turns into the 30's all over again, and even if it did my job is safe. One of the safest places to be in these times.
Dont think it can't happen. I sure as hell never thought anyone would come in and buy AB.
Just wait till the first of the big three gets bought out by a foreign company or at least starts negotiating it. My pick will be Ford first. GM is still a very strong company with tons of capital (wiggle room)
Let's flip a coin. Heads I get tail, Tails I get head.
My opinion wouldn't change if I was in a position to be thrown out on my *** cause I would do it to anyone else if I was in their place. I get what your saying though, it's hard to put yourself in it unless your there. I assure you it wouldn't change my perspective at all. I work for a governmental entity so unless it turns into the 30's all over again, and even if it did my job is safe. One of the safest places to be in these times.
So you have a gov't job? During a republican administration? And you talk about business? Thats like bench racing. When your not fully involved in the private sector of business, its VERY difficult to sit there and preach about business ethics. But the phrase business ethics has become an oxymoron over the years.
I called people that don't want to get off their *** and accept what's handed to them lazy and stupid.
Sorry, but people that atleast have the motivation to get a job for $7 an hour have all the motivation they need. For anyone to sit back and accept a **** job because thats all thats offered is laughable. And don't sit there and tell me they should go to school, I have an ex who has a 4 year degree making $10 an hour in Chicago, and its not going to pan out into anything more than that. Even a 4 year degree doesn't carry you as far as it used to, you'd be lucky making $35k a year with one. You need a masters or a doctorate to make any money from schooling nowadays. So the school excuse is out the window. Its coming down to people who have a natural talent, and while that may seem all and well, that leaves a LARGE majority of people out in the cold. Simply put, not everyone can work in an office, not everyone can be a CEO, and not everyone can be a manager. And its not just because of natural talent shoving others out of the way, managerial positions work on a pyramid scheme. With large corporations taking more and more business from the local mom and pop places, there are less and less positions on the tops of these corporate ladders. Eventually even people that were in middle management will lose their jobs with the medium sized company they were working for, and will have to take a job farther down the trough because of the limited openings in middle management. When this happens, corporations will set low wages for people, because they control the company, as well as lobbyists that can persuade lawmakers to remove the red tape that they have had to fight thru to recede labor laws.
With more money comes more power for these large corporations. They begin to lose whatever morals and ethics they had, all for a ****ing dollar. Its the new American dream, pure unadulterated GREED. There is no "Love Thy Neighbor" anymore, its "F*** Thy Neighbor". Its a sick attitude this country has, Im glad I am personally not part of it.
The only thing I would say is based on the local 134 website it's about as left wing propaganda as I've ever read.
It is what it is, but I had this way of thinking LONG before I joined the union. You haven't been around long enough to see, but I have arguments about this that are 4 or 5 years old.
How much do you make a year?
1995 Pontiac Firebird
2008 Chevrolet Silverado LT Crew Cab 4x4
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