Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

[cam98aro]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

You just don't get it. The UNION does design bland, fat, thirsty Buicks etc.
Conservatives always want to do away with Unions. Well I live in Florida
a "right to work" state. Here U have the right to work for low wages and keep
your mouth shut. Here $10 an hour is considered middle class and we have
an 8% + unemployment rate. Read your history, the first thing Hitler did
after he came to power is desolve all trade unions. He did this for his corporate
supporters like Braun, Daimer Benz, BMW, and others.
Lutz was brought to GM some years ago to re-do GM and he decided the way to
profitability was: 12 Cyl Cadillac, 700 HP Corvette, that retro Chevy pick-up
and continuing to make cars that still looked like GM cars of the past 15 years.
That clearly did not work and now the V-12 Cadillac is dead and the 700HP
Corvette is dead and that poor selling retro pick up is dead.
I guess you did not know that when GM and Ford first started to organize, GM
hired professional goons with guns to break up strikers and some workers
were killed.
Just think....what if the new Camaro looked like a Lambo or a Ferrari....how fast would they sell? What if they built a 4 cyl Corvette and called it a City Corvette...
as most speeds in Cities are under 50 mph anyway...but it could get good mileage.
These guys only know the old ways and they need to go retire to a $5,000,000 estate in Palm Beach and play golf all day until they choke on a $30 cuban cigar.

what you're not getting is that 99% of the cars that GM/ford have taken from outside of the US have never taken off, nobody bought them.

unions are the exact reason why the big three are failing, just take a look at what their demands are, they are ridiculous, we might as well just give them all nice leather chairs and pay them $50 an hour to sit in them and do nothing all day

do you really believe that a 4 cylinder corvette would sell? why do you think the corvette sells in the first place?

the ls1 was the MAIN reason why the camaros sold, NOT the v6, which is opposite of the mustang.

maybe im a bit blind, but im pretty darn sure that the corvette looks like a "super car" compared with a lambo or ferrari, there is no need to make another car that looks the same, it will take away the sales of the vette.. plus the camaro was never ment to be a "super car" take a look at the new mustang, it is selling like hotcakes with the new retro styling.. and its too early to tell with the challenger, but why would GM NOT follow in the footsteps?

[PalmHarborBlkv6]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Yes, you are blind. Any car brought over by GM was altered to look bland as hell.....
from the Cadillac a few years ago to the Ford small cars. Many people who buy
Corvettes buy them for the look and as a chick magnet but they are impractical
in a City environment.
It seems you do not want the facts to get in the way of your opinions. Ford made
a convertible for the Escort in Europe that they never brought here as well as the:
Fiesta (new generation) KA, Escort GHIA, Orion, Siera Sapphire, Sapphire GHIA
Granda, Scorpio.
All cars with diesel or gas cars with great mileage and good looks.
If they got our billions, they would make the same damn cars no one wants to buy.
Period

[cam98aro]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Yes, you are blind. Any car brought over by GM was altered to look bland as hell.....
from the Cadillac a few years ago to the Ford small cars. Many people who buy
Corvettes buy them for the look and as a chick magnet but they are impractical
in a City environment.
It seems you do not want the facts to get in the way of your opinions. Ford made
a convertible for the Escort in Europe that they never brought here as well as the:
Fiesta (new generation) KA, Escort GHIA, Orion, Siera Sapphire, Sapphire GHIA
Granda, Scorpio.
All cars with diesel or gas cars with great mileage and good looks.
If they got our billions, they would make the same damn cars no one wants to buy.
Period

so you are telling me like the vette isnt styled in a similar way to a ferrari?

im sorry, but i can kind of see a resemblance here, even if it is just a tiny bit:





the ford contour is an exact replica of the mondeo, so you cant really use the argument that they make them "bland" because well, people still never bought it

if you would like a fact, the 6.2l LS9 has 638hp, and gets better gas mileage then my 3.8l 200hp engine.

[PalmHarborBlkv6]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Its not good enough. Ferrari is extremely tiny corporation next to GM yet they come up with incredible design for the last 45 years....why is that? So does other Italian design companies. The Koreans have knocked off the designs of Japanese and German cars
and are doing well. What do they know that GM ignores?
GM needs new management....its as clear as the bowtie on your car.

[Pantera]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

As much as I love the big three I voted hell no!.

[Pantera]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

so you are telling me like the vette isnt styled in a similar way to a ferrari?.

Look at the Ferrari 360 headlamps and look at the C6. Iv'e seen them parked side by side before and let me tell you that the C6 has alittle italian in it. Thats not a bad thing either.

Corvettes since the C4 have always had alittle italian influence.

[00FlowCamaro]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Why are you people making this argument about the Corvette? GM needs new management, period. Not new designers.

[Meatyshells]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Its not good enough. Ferrari is extremely tiny corporation next to GM yet they come up with incredible design for the last 45 years....why is that? So does other Italian design companies. The Koreans have knocked off the designs of Japanese and German cars
and are doing well. What do they know that GM ignores?
GM needs new management....its as clear as the bowtie on your car.

i dont see how you can say GM cars are bland, have you seen toyota/nissan cars? I couldnt tell you the difference between a maxima/altima, rouge/murano i cant even think of what the toyota cars are called, only name that comes to mind is corolla.

Have you seen the new mailibu? The car that they ran out of because it was selling so fast.

Sure the big 3 have made mistakes, but they have to deal with all these rules and regulations that imports dont.

Also go look at how well GM cars are selling in china. I believe i even read that some police forces use GM cars in china.

[vanbibber]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

. Ford made
a convertible for the Escort in Europe that they never brought here as well as the:
Fiesta (new generation) KA, Escort GHIA, Orion, Siera Sapphire, Sapphire GHIA
Granda, Scorpio.
All cars with diesel or gas cars with great mileage and good looks.

Period

im sorry, but not one of those cars have good looks. they're small as hell, cheap as hell, and flat out boring looking. the only compact car europe has that looks decent is the Focus RS and even it is borderline.

they're popular because they're cheap. i had a powerwheel that had more quality interior in it when i was 5 than any of the cars you listed do.

[Mighty Thor]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

im sorry, but not one of those cars have good looks. they're small as hell, cheap as hell, and flat out boring looking. the only compact car europe has that looks decent is the Focus RS and even it is borderline.

they're popular because they're cheap. i had a powerwheel that had more quality interior in it when i was 5 than any of the cars you listed do.

They're not that bad or boring cars. If you go to Europeans tend to snatch up these cars.

That's one of the arguments I've heard, was that US can't build those cars here because of labor cost.

One of the reason they took the Fbodies out of Van Nuys, Ca. and moved it to Canada was because the labor cost along with EPA regulation far exceed profit gain. Fbodies are sold cheap so that it can compete with the Mustangs. A former GM guy said that the main reason they moved to Canada was because of cost. Californian workers on average are paid more than any person living in different states or country.

You see that's the dilema GM is facing: high pay, high benefits, and too many people on leave.

[Archer]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

I say no, it wouldnt help america's eco out. No one can still purchase a high priced car. Their judgment sucks in upper management. they need to redesign their plans, cut out the high salaries. seriously, why would anyone need to make a million or more a year? to have life handed to them? Im not saying I wouldnt take it, but if my company was going down the drain, I wouldnt mind trimming a little fat off my check to save it. these companies did it to themselves. I dont care about the designs. I care that it runs, and it runs for a long time. Kinda like the old days. but people have gotten money hungry and **** has gotten out of control.

My opinion. Let'em fry.

Archer

[3800SoloWing]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Ok. Here's my opinion. **** democrats, and **** the corrupt corporations that need bailouts while they sit on their fat asses drinking thousand dollar wine. **** the retards that live off of my tax money, although they can work to make my country better. **** loan sharks for screwing the country more for money because they think they are better than all of us. **** poor management who things they can save companies from certian failure by cutting back jobs and making more **** expensive to fill their pockets. **** the dumbasses who came up with ethanol that ruins engines and drive gas prices to a new high while at the same time raising the overall cost of living indefinitly. I think this country has been filled with bull**** lies to save sanity. **** it all, I'm going to Canada. Who's with me?

[3.4 slow to go]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

dude, canada's already where this country is heading (no offense meant to our friends up north).

What's the point of even having the Tenth Amendment when it's so blatently ignored?????


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[nitetime_pr]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

Have fun in Canada 3800SoloWing...I haven't given up on America yet. Also, you forgot to say **** republicans as they are just as responsible for the mess we're in as anyone else, maybe even more...I still say NO to any Big 3 bailout however.

[youngsc]

Re: Should the Big 3 Automaker be bailed out?

All a "bailout" would do is prolong the inevitable. 25 billion would not be enough to save their sorry business plans. They are blowing through billions each month in cash reserves, all it would do is prolong it. They need to be treated as any other business and suffer the consequences of their poor desicision skills and lack of foresight in an industry that they dominated for 80 years. Restructure they're automotive lineups, minimize them by reducing the models offered, options available and features provided. Eliminate or drastically reduce the union labor force. GM and Ford are paying 1600 and 1500 per vehicle in employee related costs, compare that to Toyota at 300. Yeah they're failure would be far reaching so be it, they got themselves in the mess let them squirm like every other business to get out. If someone else can build it better then let them come in and do so, japan, china, korea who cares it's a global economy and will remain so for the rest of time. Their chapter 11 revised plan should be that of really simple purchasing pratices, consolidate inventory, improve efficeny and productivity and reduce costs.