Socialism at Work!

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

If I make 50k a year... and this is honestly meant to have no offense to you... but if that's all I'm making by the time I'm, let's say 35... I'll be very dissappointed... people with similar education as mine are making WELL into the hundred thousands...

And they STILL won't see that high 70's% tax bracket. That upper bracket is usually for the upper 1% of the population, the people making MILLIONS a week.

And BTW, I will top at $72k, with the possibility of both my bachelors in computer science and industrial management, the possibility of $100k or more, but the taxes still do not concern me. If you can't live WELL on $70k a year, you should really look at your spending habits.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

I didn't say I WAS all about money... but I'm not going to school so that I can be in a lower tax bracket so I'll be safe from those taxes...

Saying that a person who has money should feel bad for having money is a dangerously un-American statement... if you earn lots of money... you EARNED lots of money end of story... my parents... my mom especially came from nothing and made a life for herself by being smart with what little money she had... the opportunities are there for EVERYONE it is guaranteed in the constitution... people who make the right decisions will strive while people who don't will suffer the consequences of those decisions, there will be some exceptions to this rule and there are programs already in place to alleviate those strains...

The ONLY guarantees are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. Even said rights that were given to us can be taken at the stroke of a pen.

And what do you mean un-American? If YOU YOURSELF earned lots of money with no help, then you can keep it all. But if you have involved another American citizen to make your millions of dollars, you owe it to that American some sort of basic rights as any person with an intelligence living in a sophisticated society would. You don't exploit them so that the bottom line of your accounting books look better. Its called MORAL RESPONSIBILITY. Too many people have shed such responsibility in order to exploit the common man in the name of capitalism, patriotism, and what they would call the "American Dream".

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

So enforce the laws that are already on the books, or create new ones that effectively carry out the goals of the original ones... Don't scrap an entire system because a few have strayed... I currently make around 15k a year... I could afford health insurance but if I don't WANT to pay for it, I shouldn't have to... If I decide that my priorities are to buy a house, or buy a car, or start a business or whatever with MY money I should have that right... I shouldn't be FORCED to buy health insurance, which is exactly what Obamacare will force me to do, treating it like auto insurance... Auto insurance is mandatory to protect not the purchaser, but protect the victim of the purchaser in the event of an accident...

and if I, MYSELF earn lots of money... I can't keep all of it for myself because the politicians that you voted for consider me the enemy to their agenda... so they'll take as much money as they can...

So you have no problem with losing the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I'm not sure what you meant by that statement... just because they can be taken away makes that okay? Clarify what you mean please, bc if that is what you mean... it's once again another troubling statement...

also... Do you shop at Wal-mart?

and I'm not saying that people who are taxed at the highest tax brackets are going to have a hard time "living" but they won't be able to live as lavishly or "celebrate the fruits of their own labor" as they should be able to... ITS THEIR MONEY

STOP blaming the rich for the struggles of the poor... most wealthy give back plenty... but will give back less if they have less to give, it should be their right to choose where their money should go... it is after all, their money... but you want to take that from them, to give to the poor...

[Blizzard242]

Re: Socialism at Work!

I shop at Wal-Mart.

Edit: BTW, I have read only very small bits and pieces buttttttttt. I believe health care should be some kind of incentive to get some lazy asses to work. Whatever happens, I don't care as long as it doesn't come out of my wallet. But we're already beyond that. I don't care what anyone says but when I see how much I get taxed a year, I'm not very happy.

Earn what you get.

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

I shop at Wal-Mart.

Edit: BTW, I have read only very small bits and pieces buttttttttt. I believe health care should be some kind of incentive to get some lazy asses to work. Whatever happens, I don't care as long as it doesn't come out of my wallet. But we're already beyond that. I don't care what anyone says but when I see how much I get taxed a year, I'm not very happy.

Earn what you get.

Amen brotha...

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

So enforce the laws that are already on the books, or create new ones that effectively carry out the goals of the original ones... Don't scrap an entire system because a few have strayed...

The laws on the books are a joke, I pointed that out earlier. There needs to be stiffer penalties for those who wrongfully terminate an employee. The law that is on the books is a JOKE.

So you have no problem with losing the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? I'm not sure what you meant by that statement... just because they can be taken away makes that okay? Clarify what you mean please, bc if that is what you mean... it's once again another troubling statement...

I see that you misunderstood and misconstrued AGAIN what I was saying. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are the ONLY rights that cannot be taken away, even thru legislation. Everything else can be.

also... Do you shop at Wal-mart?

Twice in 7 years, because I was on the road and needed a damn gas can once, and a new tire the next time. Other than that, I don't walk into the place, or drive thru their parking lots. I get my groceries from a union grocery store here in Chicagoland, AND, its actually pretty inexpensive. Everything else I get is from local business exclusive to Chicago whenever it is possible. But I do not shop at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club.

and I'm not saying that people who are taxed at the highest tax brackets are going to have a hard time "living" but they won't be able to live as lavishly or "celebrate the fruits of their own labor" as they should be able to... ITS THEIR MONEY

BULL****. The employees that whatever entreprenuer put the same amount of blood, sweat, time away from their family as he or she did at the top. They deserve better than to be raped of everything. They deserve more than what the free market dictates. Humans are NOT commodities to be traded off, sold, and thought less of because they work for a living. They deserve the same fruits of labor as the guys up top, because without them, THERE WOULD BE NO MONEY FOR EITHER SIDE.
Have you seen how some of these upper 1% of the population live? Its ****ing sickening. These fat pigs so wealthy they can buy themselves a few politicians to change law in their favor. And THATS exactly what happens. Blago was caught selling a US senate seat to the highest bidder. Your under some illusion that most of these people sitting on these boards in these companies put hard earned time in there, when in fact ALOT of execs are traded around no differently than a football player is traded around the NFL. They are shuffled around from company to company till one of them takes them, leaving the last company with a very HIGH severance, even if that company turned a record loss. And if they manage to be at a company that fails while they are there, they are saved by golden parachutes. Being rewarded for ****ING FAILING. Its not ok if an employee fails, they're fired, but if an exec does, he's given a bonus. So stop giving me that **** that these people have worked their fingers to the bone.

I blame the rich for the spike in poverty in this country, I blame the rich for the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US, and I blame the rich for the destruction of the middle class. The employees didn't send their own jobs overseas to be outsourced. The employees only asked for an honest days pay for an honest days work. The employees didn't make the decisions to run a company into the ground, but they are the ones that suffer the most.

If they want a to conduct business in this country, time to start paying up. Again and again I have said that this exploitation of American law and ideals will end. The profit a company turns is just as much the employees as it is the executives. And the labor laws need to be re-examined, if not reformed to be more severe. People are tired of getting spoon-fed **** day in and day out, its WHY they voted for who they voted for.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

Edit: BTW, I have read only very small bits and pieces buttttttttt. I believe health care should be some kind of incentive to get some lazy asses to work.

Earn what you get.

And where do these jobs come from?? China? Taiwan? India? We HAD jobs for these people at one time, and outsourced them. I do not want to hear this crap that people need to get off their asses and work, STOP SENDING JOBS OVERSEAS, AND STOP GIVING THEM TO ILLEGALS!!! You stop sending these jobs overseas, pay them something decent, give them healthcare, maybe some form of retirement options, and you'll see less people on medicaid and medicare, less on Welfare and unemployment, more revenue generated by local, state, and federal government, inturn lowering taxes due to the excess of money. Keep sending jobs overseas and allowing illegals to do them for cash, and it will continue to rot this country. THERE ARE NO JOBS left anymore that have any decent pay without a Masters degree in blowjobs. I just solved the tax issue in one post, all that needs to happen is the fat cats in big business to get these jobs back into the US, and the politicians to create a better environment for competition. Wal-mart is not competition, they're a borderline monopoly. You keep shopping with them, and you'll understand why tax revenue is drying up so quickly. The balance of money is shifting too much to the private sector and not being recirculated because these damn companies prefer to keep their money in offshore accounts, so that its not taxed, EVEN IF the money was made here in the US.

I just solved the whole issue, but you conservatives are too damn greedy to admit that Im right. Youd rather have $10 billion dollars in the account, sitting, gaining interest for no apparent reason, while paying your employee's $7.25 an hour instead of settling for $9 billion, paying your employees $10 an hour, and giving them the chance to actually afford their own health insurance and retirement. But that ain't going to happen if it comes down to people like you. You justify these people making money hand over fist, without recirculating it, letting it sit in that offshore account. In the mean time, people work more and more hours for less and less pay, or see their jobs go overseas to a COMMUNIST COUNTRY so they can pay their new COMMUNIST FRIENDS several cents on the dollar compared to here. Thats something else that strikes me funny, is how much Capitalism needs Communism to operate at full greedy potential. God forbid if China actually started paying their people atleast a $1 a day, then those companies that choose to send their work to COMMUNIST CHINA might think again before outsourcing their labor. All in the name of capitalism.

[nimrod.sixty9]

Re: Socialism at Work!

The laws on the books are a joke, I pointed that out earlier. There needs to be stiffer penalties for those who wrongfully terminate an employee. The law that is on the books is a JOKE.

BULL****. The employees that whatever entreprenuer put the same amount of blood, sweat, time away from their family as he or she did at the top. They deserve better than to be raped of everything. They deserve more than what the free market dictates. Humans are NOT commodities to be traded off, sold, and thought less of because they work for a living. They deserve the same fruits of labor as the guys up top, because without them, THERE WOULD BE NO MONEY FOR EITHER SIDE.
Have you seen how some of these upper 1% of the population live? Its ****ing sickening. These fat pigs so wealthy they can buy themselves a few politicians to change law in their favor. And THATS exactly what happens. Blago was caught selling a US senate seat to the highest bidder. Your under some illusion that most of these people sitting on these boards in these companies put hard earned time in there, when in fact ALOT of execs are traded around no differently than a football player is traded around the NFL. They are shuffled around from company to company till one of them takes them, leaving the last company with a very HIGH severance, even if that company turned a record loss. And if they manage to be at a company that fails while they are there, they are saved by golden parachutes. Being rewarded for ****ING FAILING. Its not ok if an employee fails, they're fired, but if an exec does, he's given a bonus. So stop giving me that **** that these people have worked their fingers to the bone.

I blame the rich for the spike in poverty in this country, I blame the rich for the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US, and I blame the rich for the destruction of the middle class. The employees didn't send their own jobs overseas to be outsourced. The employees only asked for an honest days pay for an honest days work. The employees didn't make the decisions to run a company into the ground, but they are the ones that suffer the most.

Nailed it! Amen brother! :tup:

People are tired of getting spoon-fed **** day in and day out, its WHY they voted for who they voted for.

I see your point here, and this is where Id have to disagree. They are still being fed BS. And this is coming from a National Socialist...

Anyone who believes in Keynesian economics is wrong, for seriously obvious reasons. Not to mention how he talked the economy down just so he can implement his own policies.

*Back to your side* Now this has backfired because now the Capitalists are using it as an excuse and are now making more money for the execs. For example; the company that put a single employee in charge of making massive layoffs and at the end of it all gave him a raise that was bigger than the amount of money he saved from the now non-existent payroll. Which will all come back to bite them in the *** :D

And where do these jobs come from?? China? Taiwan? India? We HAD jobs for these people at one time, and outsourced them. I do not want to hear this crap that people need to get off their asses and work, STOP SENDING JOBS OVERSEAS, AND STOP GIVING THEM TO ILLEGALS!!! You stop sending these jobs overseas, pay them something decent, give them healthcare, maybe some form of retirement options, and you'll see less people on medicaid and medicare, less on Welfare and unemployment, more revenue generated by local, state, and federal government, inturn lowering taxes due to the excess of money. Keep sending jobs overseas and allowing illegals to do them for cash, and it will continue to rot this country. THERE ARE NO JOBS left anymore that have any decent pay without a Masters degree in blowjobs. I just solved the tax issue in one post, all that needs to happen is the fat cats in big business to get these jobs back into the US, and the politicians to create a better environment for competition. Wal-mart is not competition, they're a borderline monopoly. You keep shopping with them, and you'll understand why tax revenue is drying up so quickly. The balance of money is shifting too much to the private sector and not being recirculated because these damn companies prefer to keep their money in offshore accounts, so that its not taxed, EVEN IF the money was made here in the US.

I just solved the whole issue, but you conservatives are too damn greedy to admit that Im right. Youd rather have $10 billion dollars in the account, sitting, gaining interest for no apparent reason, while paying your employee's $7.25 an hour instead of settling for $9 billion, paying your employees $10 an hour, and giving them the chance to actually afford their own health insurance and retirement. But that ain't going to happen if it comes down to people like you. You justify these people making money hand over fist, without recirculating it, letting it sit in that offshore account. In the mean time, people work more and more hours for less and less pay, or see their jobs go overseas to a COMMUNIST COUNTRY so they can pay their new COMMUNIST FRIENDS several cents on the dollar compared to here. Thats something else that strikes me funny, is how much Capitalism needs Communism to operate at full greedy potential. God forbid if China actually started paying their people atleast a $1 a day, then those companies that choose to send their work to COMMUNIST CHINA might think again before outsourcing their labor. All in the name of capitalism.

Yes, tired of tax dollars going to ppl who have no right to be here!

I agree, no one needs a 7000 dollar shower curtain or an 80000 dollar rug!



Like I said, I am a National Socialist and Im on the same page with what youve said. But... Obama is not our fix, more like a demise... Here comes our inflation...

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

Obama is not an end all to our problems, and he is not without his own problems...no one is perfect, and theres no denying it, but he can set it in a better course. We could either have him, or McCain, and its always been a choice of the lesser of two evils. Must remember, that if he does get reelected, he only has 8 years TOTAL in office. The issues we have now will supercede his presidency.

BTW, thats 5,000 posts. Most of which contain substance similar to this.;)

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

The laws on the books are a joke, I pointed that out earlier. There needs to be stiffer penalties for those who wrongfully terminate an employee. The law that is on the books is a JOKE.

Either enforce the laws, or support new laws to accomplish the goal of the original ones

I see that you misunderstood and misconstrued AGAIN what I was saying. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are the ONLY rights that cannot be taken away, even thru legislation. Everything else can be.

Misunderstood maybe, but not misconstrued... you said that these rights can be taken away... I was asking if that was okay with you...

Twice in 7 years, because I was on the road and needed a damn gas can once, and a new tire the next time. Other than that, I don't walk into the place, or drive thru their parking lots. I get my groceries from a union grocery store here in Chicagoland, AND, its actually pretty inexpensive. Everything else I get is from local business exclusive to Chicago whenever it is possible. But I do not shop at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club.

I commend you for that... Neither I, nor my family shops there because of the many problems we have with them... I do my best to buy only American products, and Wal-mart actually held their share-holder's meeting in China last year... there are only 3 COUNTRIES in the world who do more business with China, than Wal-mart... they DO mistreat employees, and they DO get away with it, and I DO think it's despicable... but I DON'T think that they should pay for mandatory health care for their employees... again I don't understand why they don't, because they obviously, as you pointed out, have the revenue available... but millions work for them, and no one forces them, and millions shop there, and no one forces them... Enact and support laws to prevent and punish Wal-mart if and when they are unethical... don't punish the nearly 300 million other people whose last name isn't Walton...

Humans are NOT commodities to be traded off, sold, and thought less of because they work for a living.

agreed, but this is not an argument for socialized health care...

They deserve the same fruits of labor as the guys up top

You're contradicting yourself... not EVERYONE turns evil once they get some money in their bank accounts... most of them are very generous and SMART people... they deserve to be rewarded for their talents, and they deserve to take all the pleasure they want in their spoils... once again it's the American dream... if you can blame the rich for the poor's struggles, then why shouldn't the rich blame the poor for taking THEIR money... and let's get something else straight... not everyone who makes big money is a top exec... plenty of people work for those execs and make plenty of money... besides, small businesses employ something like 90+% of the workforce... guys who took a skill or trade and turned it into a business... the exact person who you're Obamacare will punish...

because without them, THERE WOULD BE NO MONEY FOR EITHER SIDE.

It goes both ways... if it weren't for the business owner... these others wouldn't even have jobs to begin with... Would you rather work for a rich person or a poor person... which job do you think has more job security?

Have you seen how some of these upper 1% of the population live? Its ****ing sickening.

SOME... key word... So you're blaming them for being successful... back in the day, people in a struggling town in Europe would see these Americans living so lavishly and thought... hmm... the American dream, you can live like royalty...

These fat pigs so wealthy they can buy themselves a few politicians to change law in their favor. And THATS exactly what happens.

Again... not an argument for socialized health care... you have a problem with corruption... fight the corruption...

Blago was caught selling a US senate seat to the highest bidder.

Not exactly... the media spun this terribly. I'm not condoning what he did but he didn't literally try to make money from someone who wanted to be a Senator... read up on it... from somewhere that is reputable... I'm not condoning what he did in anyway, and regardless it's still in no way an argument for socialized health care

Your under some illusion that most of these people sitting on these boards in these companies put hard earned time in there, when in fact ALOT of execs are traded around no differently than a football player is traded around the NFL. They are shuffled around from company to company till one of them takes them, leaving the last company with a very HIGH severance, even if that company turned a record loss. And if they manage to be at a company that fails while they are there, they are saved by golden parachutes. Being rewarded for ****ING FAILING. Its not ok if an employee fails, they're fired, but if an exec does, he's given a bonus. So stop giving me that **** that these people have worked their fingers to the bone.

Once again, you seem to have a problem with success... All of these business practices are pretty disgusting, but only apply to about 3% of the workforce... and if you have a problem with big business practice, that's STILL not an argument for OR against Socialized medicine...

I blame the rich for the spike in poverty in this country, I blame the rich for the loss of manufacturing jobs in the US, and I blame the rich for the destruction of the middle class.

Sounds like you have some sort of grudge...

The employees didn't send their own jobs overseas to be outsourced.

Nope, the unions made sure that happened... Don't get me wrong unions DO have their place in manufacturing as well as other jobs... but have you seen some of the pay of some of the big union bosses in this country? and forgetting that, unions made sure that employees received even more benefits (whether the benefits be pay, medical, dental, pensions etc) with no increased productivity... That's why benefits should remain incentives... benefits, not rights... if the unions understood this, many businesses would have kept their manufacture jobs here... Now with Cap and Trade, and Obamacare... frankly any entrepreneuer would be dumb to open a big manufacturing operation in the U.S. because remember--- The point of opening a business is to make money...

This grudge you have against big business is going to ultimately harm the small businesses... How about this... if your profits are over a certain amount... I don't know what amount, but a high one... You must provide health care for your employees... would that make you happy? If it was a requirement across the board for any employer it will do more harm than good... unemployment will go up due to the numerous small business owners who won't be able to afford to keep all of their employees and pay for their healthcare. Many small business owners would be forced to pass these extra expenses on either their employees, or their consumers, or in some cases close up shop altogether... resulting in a loss in jobs, and a hit to the markets...

its WHY they voted for who they voted for.

I'm not saying that you are an exception, and that no democrat knows who they're voting for and any of that... so don't come back with that...

but have you watched our nations news lately? Or read some of the slop that some of our nation's once respected news outlets print? Many many many voters did not vote for what they got... The mainstream media outlets drooled over Obama during the campaign... merciless and PERSONAL attacks against anyone whose name popped up on the screen with an (R) next to it... I don't know if you are capable of sitting back and being objective or not, but you seem intelligent so I'll bet if you wanted to, you could... now think of how an impressionable "undecided" voter would react to such coverage... I know that Obama had his followers who voted for him because they were well versed in his policies, but I'm referring to the person who doesn't identify with either party, and doesn't follow politics like you and I do... I'm not saying "He shouldn't have won" or "He didn't deserve to win" He ran a very effective campaign... I'm just saying that it's debatable whether or not his policies are what got him elected...

I think that evidence that this isn't what people voted for is quite obvious in my state of Ohio especially... his poll numbers are now in dissapproval side... concerning what he's done in his first 6 months... the first state of what I'm predicting will be many to follow that trend... Dayton, Ohio had the 4th largest turn-out in the country at the April 15th tea parties... (just had to throw that in there... lol) and this is a trend that most of the rest of the country has been following fairly steadily...

I have tried to give Obama a chance, and I hope that republicans take control of congress in 2010, because I think that he would be willing to work with them if that were the case, but he's too loyal to his constituents at this point and with the dems in control of basically everything (soon to be in control of even the Supreme Court come the next appointment)... the republicans have become the center and the dems the FAR left... which, again, I don't believe is what the people voted for...

[nimrod.sixty9]

Re: Socialism at Work!

Congrats ;) Still workin on my 1000 :D

And I agree, he has his problems and wasn't set in office in a good situation.

[kala]

Re: Socialism at Work!

wes they need to get back to work lol. you have to much time on your hands now.

For a second I thought I was in a "smoke panther's" thread. Then I realized it's just MOGO!


Who ate my f'ing popcorn?

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

One more way of looking at it... If someone makes the choice to smoke and develops lung cancer, should my tax dollars pay for their treatment? If someone drinks and develops cirrhosis of the liver, should I pay for their diuretics? If someone likes to cut themselves should I pay for their stitches? Even though I don't smoke, drink or mutilate myself? All problems with Universal health care...

[Shirl]

Re: Socialism at Work!

One more way of looking at it... If someone makes the choice to smoke and develops lung cancer, should my tax dollars pay for their treatment? If someone drinks and develops cirrhosis of the liver, should I pay for their diuretics? If someone likes to cut themselves should I pay for their stitches? Even though I don't smoke, drink or mutilate myself? All problems with Universal health care...

No, we shouldn't be paying for these types of people. They "should be" denied coverage altogether. Maybe that would give them the incentive to quit or get the proper help they need. Btw, you forgot to mention the drug addicts and people who abuse prescription medicines. ;)

[ssms5411]

Re: Socialism at Work!

No, we shouldn't be paying for these types of people. They "should be" denied coverage altogether. Maybe that would give them the incentive to quit or get the proper help they need. Btw, you forgot to mention the drug addicts and people who abuse prescription medicines. ;)

When I worked as a Psych tech for almost 4 years, the detox people where just a rotating door , on methodone, oxycotin, and other pain meds 90% on medicare A & B alot of 18-25 year olds living off the Gov. and then the older ones worked the system the best knew how many days they had left for hospital stays and what meds they knew they could get from the DR.'s They get 30-90 days a year I think it was at 12,000 a day for meds, care and treatment at the hospital. Then there was the ones who were there for depression living off the Gov. all they have to do is say I'm going to kill myself and make some scratches on their arm and they get Acesss , food stamps , medicare A & B , even living assitance. All the time there they are joking around and learning new ways to scam the system from the older PT's there. I would say for the Pysch, depression and detox 10% of the PT's were for real and wouldn't return like 90% of the others. Thats 48 PT's a day at full capacity all the time, even turning PT's away to other hospitals or treatment centers. It really pissed me off seeing all the 18 year olds on medicare and getting all government assitance when they have never worked a day in there life. They would lie so much they couldn't keep track of all their lies, when getting close to being released from the DR., if they didn't want to go they would act up and find anything to scratch their arm or make a sheet into something like their going to hang themself and hit the emergency call button in the room. Then they would get their way more drugs to calm them down and about another week in the hospital. What a waste of money on these people and thats only one hospital, imagine how much money the Gov. is spending on these people who haven't even worked a day in their life, I say cut them off and if they go they go , if someone is serious about suicide you won't know it , because they will just do it and not tell anyone like these slugs in soceity. I'm done ranting, I could go on about my 7 years with ADOC inmates and what they get but it would be too long.LOL Sorry if I got off topic.