Socialism at Work!

[ssms5411]

Re: Socialism at Work!

I think the oil in Mexico comes from Iraq to be refined since it is cheaper on labor costs. I believe we are over there for the oil , becuase the first time we went over it was to protect the oil feilds , not the people. When the prices of the barrel goes up over there the oil prices go up at the pump here. Someone is making alot of money, I know the Bushes made a ton of money in oil.

[3.4 slow to go]

Re: Socialism at Work!

who else did? since your sooooo adiment about who made $$ in oil.

well? oh yeah, stock holders made money too, go figure :rolleyes:

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

lol... Mogobs... our beloved Wal-Mart is showing it's support for Obama and his health care plan... Maybe like you, I was pretty surprised when I read this, and then once I actually thought about it, it makes perfect sense... Say what you want about Wal-Mart, but they're smart and effective when it comes to making money... So how will Obamacare help Wal-Mart? By killing their competition... Wal-mart will have no problem absorbing the great costs of Obamacare, but all of the local small businesses and mom-and-pop stores won't fair so greatly after the bill... So Wal-Mart will bite the bullet and pay for the healthcare (I'm sure they'll weasel out of paying most of it, anyway)... but will ultimately benefit from Obamacare by furthering the monopoly they already hold in many areas...

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

I think the oil in Mexico comes from Iraq to be refined since it is cheaper on labor costs. I believe we are over there for the oil , becuase the first time we went over it was to protect the oil feilds , not the people. When the prices of the barrel goes up over there the oil prices go up at the pump here. Someone is making alot of money, I know the Bushes made a ton of money in oil.

It's impossible to prove what someone was thinking when they did anything... but just to go along with you for a second... Let's say we did go over there for oil, can you argue with the logic? And before anyone says that we shouldn't risk American lives for oil, my point is, we get oil from the Middle East anyway... that is a fact... so why shouldn't our oil come from someone that we could call an ally? We send million$ overseas to countries whose opinions of the U.S. is indifferent at best... By sending our money to people who don't care for the U.S., you are creating a National Security issue... but by sending our money to a country who is an ally sounds like a much better idea to me... and don't forget, Bush was the one who wanted to drill ANWR, and drill offshore... the Dems blocked that move...


Like I said, I don't think we went there for the oil, just playing along...

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburne...althcare/2041/

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburne...althcare/2041/

The very architect himself to deregulation of many private institutions, he is the man that started the snowball effect we see today. I trust him about as far as I can throw his dead infected carcass.

Find a way to give 50+ million people healthcare. End of story.

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

Once again, denouncing and discrediting the author instead of addressing the valid points he makes...

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

His points are only valid thru one perspective, yours. They don't share my validity. Theres no point in addressing them again, since I pretty much already did this whole thread.

BTW, I can see what you wrote behind deleted posts, beauty of being a super mod. And I don't think many of those states were red the last time around.

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

That's fine, the only reason I deleted them was because I knew the comments that others would make if they were just jumping into the convo... not scared of yours at all...

I DO pay rent, where in any of this did I say that I own my home?

And you call me a hypocrite, when you're the one that said you're tired of hard working people suffering, but you have no problem with people suffering as long as those people don't live in the U.S. THAT's Hypocracy...

no comment on Wal-mart? who's dodging?

I've never been hypocritical... Who are you to say that I would've made the same decisions? When I worked at Walgreen's, I can't tell you how many people came through our drive-through in something like, their brand-new Dodge Ram with golf clubs in the bed and then pay for their scripts with medicaid... meanwhile I was driving to work in my 13 yr old car, quit baseball bc my parents couldn't afford it, all while they were paying for our health insurance... My parents sacrificed the things we didn't NEED for the things we did NEED... and you're telling me that all of their efforts have and are in vein because not everyone is willing to do the same thing (wealth envy- something neither my parents or I have, but you and these people do) and when I say that people should have the right to make their own decisions in their life, that applies to everyone. If you decide that healthcare isn't as important as a new car, or brand-name clothes, and Dinner at Applebee's, then that is your right but don't then argue that the government should pay for the stuff that isn't as fun to pay for... that 50 million number reflects this, there aren't 50 million people in this country who want insurance but don't have it bc they can't afford it... some have the money but choose not to pay for it in order to build up their savings, and some choose not to pay bc they simply have other priorities as listed above... There ARE people who fit into your category of uninsured, but it's not 50 million...

Currently, the people who can't afford healthcare insurance go broke, and receive inferior care if something happens, especially something tragic

In your system, the government, and thus, future generations will go broke, and EVERYONE will receive inferior care, even for the simple stuff...

I've been making the same point the entire time, and you've yet to put a hole in my views while I've put many in yours... I have never strayed from my point that everyone deserves health care so stop saying that I disagree with that... I've also never strayed from my point that socialized healthcare is not that the answer to that problem...

Most of the points you've made have been to point out the corruption in some of our current systems, some having nothing to do with healthcare... and even when they do, they are not arguments in favor of socialized healthcare... they are arguments for reform. Which is what I am in favor of.

and why did you close my thread because of my post when I was the creator of the thread? Did I break some sort of rule that I'm not aware of? J/W

[tkoforpresident]

Re: Socialism at Work!

go T-Mill!! :rock:

kick his a$$ sea bass!

[4thgenowner]

Re: Socialism at Work!

This is quality entertainment.

[Mogobs30th]

Re: Socialism at Work!

That's fine, the only reason I deleted them was because I knew the comments that others would make if they were just jumping into the convo... not scared of yours at all...

I DO pay rent, where in any of this did I say that I own my home?

And you call me a hypocrite, when you're the one that said you're tired of hard working people suffering, but you have no problem with people suffering as long as those people don't live in the U.S. THAT's Hypocracy...

no comment on Wal-mart? who's dodging?

I've never been hypocritical... Who are you to say that I would've made the same decisions? When I worked at Walgreen's, I can't tell you how many people came through our drive-through in something like, their brand-new Dodge Ram with golf clubs in the bed and then pay for their scripts with medicaid... meanwhile I was driving to work in my 13 yr old car, quit baseball bc my parents couldn't afford it, all while they were paying for our health insurance... My parents sacrificed the things we didn't NEED for the things we did NEED... and you're telling me that all of their efforts have and are in vein because not everyone is willing to do the same thing (wealth envy- something neither my parents or I have, but you and these people do) and when I say that people should have the right to make their own decisions in their life, that applies to everyone. If you decide that healthcare isn't as important as a new car, or brand-name clothes, and Dinner at Applebee's, then that is your right but don't then argue that the government should pay for the stuff that isn't as fun to pay for... that 50 million number reflects this, there aren't 50 million people in this country who want insurance but don't have it bc they can't afford it... some have the money but choose not to pay for it in order to build up their savings, and some choose not to pay bc they simply have other priorities as listed above... There ARE people who fit into your category of uninsured, but it's not 50 million...

Currently, the people who can't afford healthcare insurance go broke, and receive inferior care if something happens, especially something tragic

In your system, the government, and thus, future generations will go broke, and EVERYONE will receive inferior care, even for the simple stuff...

I've been making the same point the entire time, and you've yet to put a hole in my views while I've put many in yours... I have never strayed from my point that everyone deserves health care so stop saying that I disagree with that... I've also never strayed from my point that socialized healthcare is not that the answer to that problem...

Most of the points you've made have been to point out the corruption in some of our current systems, some having nothing to do with healthcare... and even when they do, they are not arguments in favor of socialized healthcare... they are arguments for reform. Which is what I am in favor of.

and why did you close my thread because of my post when I was the creator of the thread? Did I break some sort of rule that I'm not aware of? J/W

1. Im the taxpayer that has to pay for the healthcare of US citizens. I have no issues with that, because they are also tax payers as well. Liberating another country is stupid, especially when that country's citizens don't have anything to offer me or this citizens of this one.

2. How much is your rent? Like $100? I pay more for rent than the mortgage of your house, and thats the CHEAP end of Chicagoland. Its not about whos paying more in the end, its that you have to take into account cost of living depending on where you live. Dayton is one of the cheapest places to live in the US, outside of Detroit. You say you can afford things with the wage you made at Walgreens, I assure you that the wage doesnt change from whichever Walgreens you work at, but the cost of living is a night and day difference. Take that into account.

3. Ive put a hole in every view you have had, from the beginning. Everything you just stated in your latest post has been regurgitated info, and has already been addressed by myself. All you have to do is read it. Since you think Im dodging, its obvious that you haven't been paying attention the whole time I have been typing, or you wouldn't keep going on and on and on about healthcare. Because healthcare is only part of what the whole problem is, yet you seem to focus only on healthcare for some reason. Everything OUTSIDE of healthcare you have no answer to. And might I remind you, this thread didn't start as a jab at Obama's healthcare plan, it started as a dumbass comment about socialism, which in itself covers MANY different subjects other than just healthcare. Again, I solved the healthcare issue for you some time back, you have yet to respond to me. As for Wal-mart, I told you what I thought about them, READ. There isn't any point to me talking about the healthcare anymore until you address my point about paying people more to afford it.

4. BTW, 50 million people do not have health coverage. If some of them are saving money for a house, or vehicle, that doesn't mean they should sacrifice what they are saving for to pay for health insurance. And think, some people might have more than just one mouth to feed.

BTW, paying your parents rent doesn't cut it with me at all. Move out, then start talking to me. Im even suprised Ive been talking to you this long about issues you have yet to experience.

[Shirl]

Re: Socialism at Work!

1. Im the taxpayer that has to pay for the healthcare of US citizens. I have no issues with that, because they are also tax payers as well.

How do you know they are tax payers as well? Are you talking about EVERYONE?

2. How much is your rent? Like $100? I pay more for rent than the mortgage of your house, and thats the CHEAP end of Chicagoland. Its not about whos paying more in the end, its that you have to take into account cost of living depending on where you live. Dayton is one of the cheapest places to live in the US, outside of Detroit. You say you can afford things with the wage you made at Walgreens, I assure you that the wage doesnt change from whichever Walgreens you work at, but the cost of living is a night and day difference. Take that into account.

It's all relative. You chose to live there. If you don't like it there. MOVE.

3. Ive put a hole in every view you have had, from the beginning.

This is simply not true. He has put forth more logical facts in a tactful, more mature way without name-calling or derogatory remarks. This guy has class.

Everything you just stated in your latest post has been regurgitated info, and has already been addressed by myself. All you have to do is read it. Since you think Im dodging, its obvious that you haven't been paying attention the whole time I have been typing, or you wouldn't keep going on and on and on about healthcare. Because healthcare is only part of what the whole problem is, yet you seem to focus only on healthcare for some reason. Everything OUTSIDE of healthcare you have no answer to. And might I remind you, this thread didn't start as a jab at Obama's healthcare plan, it started as a dumbass comment about socialism, which in itself covers MANY different subjects other than just healthcare. Again, I solved the healthcare issue for you some time back, you have yet to respond to me. As for Wal-mart, I told you what I thought about them, READ. There isn't any point to me talking about the healthcare anymore until you address my point about paying people more to afford it.

Makes no sense. How do you "pay people more to afford it" when businesses/employers can barely keep afloat. ?? Do you pay for you're own healthcare?

4. BTW, 50 million people do not have health coverage. If some of them are saving money for a house, or vehicle, that doesn't mean they should sacrifice what they are saving for to pay for health insurance. And think, some people might have more than just one mouth to feed.

This is extremely contradictory. You were saying that the working people should pay more out of their taxes to pay for overall government healthcare but now you are saying they shouldn't have to sacrifice their savings for a house, vehicle, ect? So it's ok for people to sacrifice their money for others, but it's not ok for those to pay for their own insurance because they might want to buy a house or car ????? In this statement, you are also saying that we should worry about how many mouths YOU have to feed?

BTW, paying your parents rent doesn't cut it with me at all. Move out, then start talking to me. Im even suprised Ive been talking to you this long about issues you have yet to experience.

Again a not-so-classy way to end a post. I wasn't going to get involved with this whole debate. (Overall, it's been a very good one, btw.) But Wes, you need to control yourself a bit and realize that people have views that differ from yours. Whether right or wrong, there are no easy solutions to any of these issues. No sense arguing about it. If you want to make a difference somewhere along the line, get involved with politics. Start by going to local council meetings, planning board meetings and network with people who are involved in making DECISIONS. Then RUN for one of the seats and work you're way up from there. This is like "bench-racing politics".

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

just FYI... not that it matters at all in regards to any of my arguments... I haven't lived with my parents since about 12 days before I turned 18, I moved out, got my own place, and for about 2 and a half years I lived within walking distance to a college campus... trust me, not cheap... the only thing my parents have helped me pay for is college... again has NOTHING to do with my argument... I shouldn't have to point these things out, but you are constantly trying to discredit me instead of my viewpoint...

thanks Shirl

[T-Mill]

Re: Socialism at Work!

3. Ive put a hole in every view you have had, from the beginning. Everything you just stated in your latest post has been regurgitated info, and has already been addressed by myself. All you have to do is read it. Since you think Im dodging, its obvious that you haven't been paying attention the whole time I have been typing, or you wouldn't keep going on and on and on about healthcare. Because healthcare is only part of what the whole problem is, yet you seem to focus only on healthcare for some reason. Everything OUTSIDE of healthcare you have no answer to. And might I remind you, this thread didn't start as a jab at Obama's healthcare plan, it started as a dumbass comment about socialism, which in itself covers MANY different subjects other than just healthcare. Again, I solved the healthcare issue for you some time back, you have yet to respond to me. As for Wal-mart, I told you what I thought about them, READ. There isn't any point to me talking about the healthcare anymore until you address my point about paying people more to afford it.

I STARTED A THREAD ON HEALTHCARE AND YOU CLOSED IT AND REFERRED ME BACK TO THIS ONE!!!

you didn't respond to my post about Wal-mart supporting Obamacare... READ!!

I'm sorry, but with healthcare being a pressing issue currently, in which the only thing I can give Obama credit for is pushing back the deadline... I feel that it's the important issue, and I would have been happy keeping my healthcare discussion to the thread that I started but.........

for everyone:http://forum.camarov6.com/showthread.php?t=97437&page=5

read the last post on this thread by mogobs before he closed it...