How about 12.87 N/A.....(not mine though)

[Tiago]

this car is known by the NJ peeps, I knwo Jaames has mentioned it.

[67-03 RIP]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DO I see a guy in H/FIA, running a 02 3.8L firebird as well?
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<hr></blockquote>

Heck, now that I look at the H/FIA more carefully - Everybody check that out - How about a 12.32 at a slightly lighter weight. [img]graemlins/omg.gif[/img]

Should retitle the thread "How about 12.32 N/A with a 3.8"

Ron

[Boehlke]

He's known by the KC peeps also, we've seen him run(some of us [img]smile.gif[/img] )

[shortdog273]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 67-03 RIP:
Shortdog - Drop the BS flag my friend. You need to understand the Stock class before throwing a penalty flag.<hr></blockquote>
You're right, because after reading it, I still don't understand.

[MustangEater8251]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by shortdog273:

You're right, because after reading it, I still don't understand. <hr></blockquote>

The cars have engine work... but they fall withing the stock engien specs, providing no flaws in their being built. They do not port, anything, but precisely setup up the engine...

And somegear and the right setup can go along way..

My car used to run 16.8s. I made different I added gear, soem suspension, and practiced driving and got down ot a 15.4. Still running the same brand of wires, plugs, homemade CAI, race weight, and similar exhaust. I ran a 15.6 on the SAME exhaust setup I was running 16.8s.

I did change gears, lsd, tires(no slicks or anyhting expensive) torque arm bushing, driveshaft, udnerdrive pulley. In fact if oyu look at GMHTP this month they did naarticle about a guy running low 12s in a very basic modded lt1 but has a nice setup suspension, that he built for cheap.

[Magnus]

There are a couple NHRA cars in the 12's NA.. How they do it is beyond me, but it's damn impressive.

Can it be all gear and tranny? What the heck am I missing? Figure their cars, with my engine setup should do VERY well. I wish I knew their secrets.

But yea, i don't think it's BS at all. We just don't hear about it often. I believe Shirl got to see one race first hand at the track.

[Slow-N-ugly]

Keep in mind, there is nothing stock about a "stock car" (I heard that in a movie once).

Even inside of the "stock car" rules, a factory specification can have +/- so much.

Find all the parts on the long end, stroke of your crank, length of rod, size of cam, cylinder bore, whatever now you have the "factory freak"; although it is not factory. Get the point?

Building the motor loose will help more than you would think, as will running a minimal amount of oil in it. Longevity is not an issue in a race motor, these guys are building motors to put a # down not to drive 100,000 miles.

Yes chassis set up as well as the trany BIG ROLE.

Also rules allow for interpretation which can sometimes be questionable.

[67-03 RIP]

Would you guys like me to scan some pages from the rulebook so you can see exactly what they can and can't have?? Give me a few yeahs and I'll see about getting them scanned.

Alot of these guys measure and test every last thing to get every thousandth out of the combination. Some have tested 20+ cams just to get .05. Keep in mind stock lift, but any duration. You can make a nasty cam with alot of duration, a 5.13 gear, 3 and 4 angle valve jobs, almost infinately adjustable computer, a an engine blueprinted to perfection.

Magnus - if you have peak TQ/HP numbers N/A and car weight, we could plug it into my Drag2000 program and mess with the gearing to see what would happen "theoretically"

Ron
Ron

[Shirl]

Yeah, I saw this car and talked to the guy. It's white, right? Well, it ran a 12.8 when I saw it. It was specially built by Pontiac's Performance Team for this guy to race it in Stock Eliminator. There was badging on it inside the door and on the windshield near the vin#.

[Shane]

67-03 RIP Im sure you have heard of Harry Doolittle right? We know him personally from racing so much and him being in Stock Eliminator with my dad. Ive talked to him many times he is a nice guy. He has a 2002 V6 and he runs 12.30's all motor......thats just nuts. :eek:

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Shane ]</p>

[12secondv6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Tiago:
this car is known by the NJ peeps, I knwo Jaames has mentioned it.<hr></blockquote>
Yup, not a streetable car.
Here are the details off the top of my head
12 bolt with 5:86 gears
Toldeo tranny
Fully ported and polished heads
5 angle valve job
Full balenced and blue printed block
Hand built and dyno tuned headers
Slicks n skinnies
"Unknown" stall converter

I'll dig out all the specs later when I'm home.

Is it true, yes.
He was in an issue of Pontiac Enthusiast.
I've heard he may be down to 12.6 N/A!!!

[Kidinthehall2001]

Damn, i wonder how much that all costs?

[Mighty Thor]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Shane:
67-03 RIP Im sure you have heard of Harry Doolittle right? We know him personally from racing so much and him being in Stock Eliminator with my dad. Ive talked to him many times he is a nice guy. He has a 2002 V6 and he runs 12.30's all motor......thats just nuts. :eek:

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Shane ]<hr></blockquote>

How do they do it? Do they do alot of weight reduction? I'm sure it can't be all tranny and gear swapping.

Maybe it's high compression. I know the owner, Rosch, did his father's 98 or 99 V6 Firebird and that car ran high 12's all day. Not sure if it is high compression though but I'm guessing.

[camaroseal]

james, it says teh heads must be stock... so how does he have pp heads? and it also says stock block

[12secondv6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by camaroseal:
james, it says teh heads must be stock... so how does he have pp heads? and it also says stock block<hr></blockquote>


When I get home I'll dig out the magazine.
The heads on that car are NOT stock