Problem areas for track days?

[EarlR]

Hey guys,

I will be attending a PDX instructor clinic in a few weeks, and will be using the Camaro ('02, 3.8, stick) to run the clinic; and just wanted to ask those of you who have had your cars on track are there any problem areas I should know about ahead of time? I have already beefed up the brake system (braided s/s lines, ATE fluid, track pads), and the suspension should be good by then, so I'm looking more at things like cooling issues, parts that tend to break under hard use, etc. I noticed for instance that the SCCA allows the SSB Camaros to run a factory-option p/s cooler, and I thought I read somewhere the p/s will overheat with hard use - but I can't remember where. I have a couple of bottles of Red Line p/s fluid that I use in the race car, I wonder if that would be enough to keep the fluid from boiling...

Is there anything else you guys know of? Any comments would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
E

[Vracer111]

Re: Problem areas for track days?

Hey guys,

I will be attending a PDX instructor clinic in a few weeks, and will be using the Camaro ('02, 3.8, stick) to run the clinic; and just wanted to ask those of you who have had your cars on track are there any problem areas I should know about ahead of time? I have already beefed up the brake system (braided s/s lines, ATE fluid, track pads), and the suspension should be good by then, so I'm looking more at things like cooling issues, parts that tend to break under hard use, etc. I noticed for instance that the SCCA allows the SSB Camaros to run a factory-option p/s cooler, and I thought I read somewhere the p/s will overheat with hard use - but I can't remember where. I have a couple of bottles of Red Line p/s fluid that I use in the race car, I wonder if that would be enough to keep the fluid from boiling...

Is there anything else you guys know of? Any comments would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
E

I know this information is late, but the #1 thing you have to watch out for is the power steering failing...it will happen eventually if you track the car. Replace it with a reduced rate Turn-one racing pump and use the Redline fluid. The stock brakes have no issues so you're more than fine there. My '98 3.8 5-speed had issue with shifting from second to third in a specific tight, left hand corner on track, just didn't want to go into gear until after the turn. Don't know the exact issue causing this, stock shifter was replaced with Hurst unit which was way better than stock.

[EarlR]

Re: Problem areas for track days?

I know this information is late, but the #1 thing you have to watch out for is the power steering failing...it will happen eventually if you track the car. Replace it with a reduced rate Turn-one racing pump and use the Redline fluid. The stock brakes have no issues so you're more than fine there. My '98 3.8 5-speed had issue with shifting from second to third in a specific tight, left hand corner on track, just didn't want to go into gear until after the turn. Don't know the exact issue causing this, stock shifter was replaced with Hurst unit which was way better than stock.

Thanks - I was able to confirm that the p/s is a problem area for this car, but hopefully can be remedied fairly easily. After the first track session as I was coming back into the paddock I could smell the fluid burning off, and a check under the hood confirmed the fluid had overheated and spewed all over the reservoir. Fortunately it wasn't much worse than that, and I'm pretty sure a cooler and some Red Line fluid will help there.

Unfortunately, I was ko'd after the second session by a leaking rear caliper; sadly it was one I had replaced (with a reman'd one) just the day before because of a leak. At first I figured I must have missed the diagnosis and it was the brake hose that was leaking, but further checking confirmed it was a bad caliper. That kinda put a damper on the day.

On the plus side, for the two sessions I did get I was very impressed with the car. I'm used to driving a full-race, 2600 lb, ITA 240SX on the track, and so was expecting an ill-handling beast with the heavy Camaro - even with the suspension mods and uber-sticky RS-2 tires - and have to say I was pleasantly surprised. The car was very stable & predictable, with just a bit of understeer on corner exit, and was a lot of fun to drive. I can't wait to get the p/s problem taken care of and get back out there.

[Vracer111]

Re: Problem areas for track days?

Thanks - I was able to confirm that the p/s is a problem area for this car, but hopefully can be remedied fairly easily. After the first track session as I was coming back into the paddock I could smell the fluid burning off, and a check under the hood confirmed the fluid had overheated and spewed all over the reservoir. Fortunately it wasn't much worse than that, and I'm pretty sure a cooler and some Red Line fluid will help there.

Unfortunately, I was ko'd after the second session by a leaking rear caliper; sadly it was one I had replaced (with a reman'd one) just the day before because of a leak. At first I figured I must have missed the diagnosis and it was the brake hose that was leaking, but further checking confirmed it was a bad caliper. That kinda put a damper on the day.

On the plus side, for the two sessions I did get I was very impressed with the car. I'm used to driving a full-race, 2600 lb, ITA 240SX on the track, and so was expecting an ill-handling beast with the heavy Camaro - even with the suspension mods and uber-sticky RS-2 tires - and have to say I was pleasantly surprised. The car was very stable & predictable, with just a bit of understeer on corner exit, and was a lot of fun to drive. I can't wait to get the p/s problem taken care of and get back out there.

Just to let you know, a PS cooler and redline fluid will just prolong the failure of the stock powersteering pump... And when the powersteering goes, if you have large sticky tires on you get a really good workout! Mine failed upon entering the pits of the 4th session of my second track day with it and the Sparco wheel was flexing and warping from the force required to turn the wheel with 275/40-17 Nitto NT-555RII tires on.

I was pleasantly surprised by the 4th gen Camaro's as well...though I had a hunch it wasn't bad due to National G stock class wins in autocrossing. It definately is not a light car and doesn't do transitions as well as light weight cars, but it does do steady state cornering really well! What most impressed me was the brakes though...with Brembo Blanks and Hawk HP+ front/ HPS rear it just flat out comes to a stop quick... almost retina detaching quick. The braking impressed Andy Hollis at an Evolution Phase II school, after his first braking he would audibly remind himself "ah yes...this is the car with good brakes"

What suspension changes have you made? I originally bought it for autocross, but the setup I had for autocrossing worked really well on track - even though I originally had some reservations running it for the first time on track in it's final rear suspension setup. For my '98 Hardtop I basically removed 200lbs from it (it weighed in at 3240 will full tank at the drag strip), kept the stock springs, used stock valved Koni Sport dampers all around, added the Hotchkiss Sport anti-roll bar setup (36.7mm front / 25mm rear), and replaced the rear arms and panhard bar with adjustable spherical bearing units. It was perfectly stable on track, but very responsive at the same time. I do miss the handling of it; if it wasn't so costly to run on track compared to a FWD Honda and it wasn't for the difficulty of engine/transmission work/maintenance compared to a FWD Honda I would still have it. Very nice handling track car with the stock open differential if you have the shop setup to work on it and don't mind spending $600+ a set of tires (inexpensive DOT-R 275/40-17 tires), $200+ a set of brake pads (Hawk HP+ Front / HPS rear), and $300+ a set of rotors (Brembo Blanks).

Autocross Video-loose gravel on asphalt surface, hit 1 cone @ 34 seconds in

Same setup as autocross except for minor tire pressure adjustment, on track at MSR-Houston

[EarlR]

Re: Problem areas for track days?

Just to let you know, a PS cooler and redline fluid will just prolong the failure of the stock powersteering pump...

What suspension changes have you made? I originally bought it for autocross, but the setup I had for autocrossing worked really well on track - even though I originally had some reservations running it for the first time on track in it's final rear suspension setup...

...Very nice handling track car with the stock open differential if you have the shop setup to work on it and don't mind spending $600+ a set of tires (inexpensive DOT-R 275/40-17 tires), $200+ a set of brake pads (Hawk HP+ Front / HPS rear), and $300+ a set of rotors (Brembo Blanks).

I wonder if the p/s pump problems could be heat related???

I originally bought the car with the intent to build it for SCCA's new ITR class, in which case I would be stuck with the stock pump. I'm still on the fence about that build though - the car is spec'd at just over 2800 lbs (w/driver) and I'm not sure it will make that weight in IT trim. And with the other cars in that class - S2000, RX8, 325-328-330, Z4, 300ZX, Porche 968, etc...it's going to need every advantage it can get.

Right now, since it is also my d/d, I'm just running AGX shocks, Pro-kit rear spring, BRM front springs, and a S/T 35mm front sway bar (stock rear bar). I am intentionally trying to keep the rear very soft, to try and help keep it planted. I may play with a few different rear sway bars, and will probably switch to one of the ADDCO hollow 35mm front bar just to save some weight (that friggin S/T bar weighs a ton), but until (if) I can take it off the street I'm not going with anything stiffer (or linear in the case of the springs).

I did install a LSD (stock Torsen-type) - I actually had the rear end sliding out a few times on the 2nd gear corner exits, even with it - I would think for auto-x it would be a must-have item. And I had thought that with the stock 3.23 gears I could just use 2nd-4th on track instead of 3rd-5th as I would have with a 4.10 rear, but I now think 2nd is just too low to be of much use except in the slowest of corners. So my next trick may be to set up a second rear with the 4.10s.

I was also using a set of Summit d/s rotors that I picked up new for almost nothing ($50 for the set IIRC), and was running HP+ pads on the front with HPS on the rear. And yes, the brakes on this car were more than adequate for the Shenandoah Circuit - they should get a better test when I take it out on Summit Point's main track in June. I don't expect I'll have any problem there either.

Nice vids btw; I've always wanted to try auto-x, but just can't get past the whole 'two hour wait for a 2 minute run' thing. Oh, and next time you have some to put up you should try out vimeo; the quality is much better than google (not to mention google isn't taking new videos). Here is a vid from one of my events last year on vimeo, and here is the same video on google.

[Vracer111]

Re: Problem areas for track days?

The P/S pump is right by the exhaust manifold...very much heat and stock rpms being too high related. The Turn-one P/S pump (basically a rebuilt reduced rpm rate stock unit) is what all the F-body roadracers replace the stock unit with when allowed.

I would say under 3000lbs with driver is totally doable, but 2800lbs with driver would be extremely difficult to acheive....unless it would be a drag car. I totally gutted my interior except for the dash and door structure and added lightweight Kirkey seats, 4-point harness, and a 4-point rollbar and as I mentioned the weight of just the car was 3240lbs (with a full tank). This is what she basically looked like at that weight:







Now the car was still "fully" street legal with catalytic converter, A/C system fully intact, full stock exhaust system except for muffler section, and stock intake system (with K&N filter) - So there was more weight that could come off, but not nearly 500 lbs worth of weight.

I had purchased a torsen differential and new 3.73 ratio ring & pinion but didn't install them before selling the car. I was more than happy with how the open differential handled on track with the DOT-R Nittos, no loss of grip issues noticed. Autocrossing on the other hand would have benefitted very much from the Torsen.

If you are trying to keep the rear end soft you should use the stock springs, they are more than adequate to keep the suspension off the bumpstops. With wide, sticky tires and a large swaybar setup on a lightened car, the handling is stable yet very responsive using the stock springs.

[SpeedingFirebird]

Re: Problem areas for track days?

I know this information is late, but the #1 thing you have to watch out for is the power steering failing...it will happen eventually if you track the car. Replace it with a reduced rate Turn-one racing pump and use the Redline fluid. The stock brakes have no issues so you're more than fine there. My '98 3.8 5-speed had issue with shifting from second to third in a specific tight, left hand corner on track, just didn't want to go into gear until after the turn. Don't know the exact issue causing this, stock shifter was replaced with Hurst unit which was way better than stock.

I recently got into hard core road racing and have the same issue. On the Turn-one site, they list a few different pumps:
LS1 40 series
LT2 40 series
aluminum 40 series
aluminum 40 series with integrated res.

Do you know which is a direct bolt on for the 3.4?

FYI, there is a right hander at NHMS that I kept screwing up the 2-3 shift.