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  • 4-banger turbo?

    NEW YORK -- General Motors is considering a four-cylinder engine for the new Chevrolet Camaro as a response to rising fuel prices.

    Speaking on the sidelines of the New York auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said the drivetrain under consideration for the Camaro is the same high-performance one used in the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters. It’s a 2.0-liter turbocharged, direct-injected four-cylinder rated at 260 hp. Lutz said that if fuel prices continue to climb, the four-cylinder Camaro could see production.

    GM has said it plans V8 and V6 versions of the Camaro but otherwise has been secretive. Lutz confirmed that the V6 version of the Camaro will be powered by the same high-tech V6 used in the Cadillac CTS. It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.


    Low-priced version dropped
    In the Camaro, the 3.6 liter’s horsepower should be around 260, Lutz said, Fuel economy, he said, will be around 17 mpg city and 25 highway. That would place the V6 Camaro among best in class for a performance car.

    Lutz said GM has dropped plans to offer a low-priced, entry-level Camaro with one of GM’s low-tech V6s. GM will position both the V6 and V8 versions of the Camaro as premium cars compared to the Camaro’s chief rival, the Ford Mustang.

    The base model Mustang uses a 4.0-liter overhead-cam V6 rated at 210 hp. The base model Dodge Challenger, due in the fall, will use a 250-hp, 3.5-liter V6.

    Most enthusiast attention has focused on the Camaro’s V8 engine, which is likely to be a 6.0-liter with about 400 hp. Lutz said the V8 will have a cylinder cutoff system that shuts down half the engine when the car reaches cruising speed. That will help it get better fuel economy.

    But Lutz said he thinks most buyers will opt for the V6 because the performance will be strong, especially when the engine is combined with a manual transmission.

    “Back in the old days, if you wanted a muscle car, to get a decent one, you had to buy the V8,” Lutz said. “And if you bought the V6, you got a fairly rough, unrefined pushrod engine with low horsepower and weasely performance.

    “This time, the V6 is 260-odd horsepower, four overhead cams, very smooth and decent 0-to-60-mph times. And now the V6 is in its own right a very fast, very legitimate car.”


    'We are going to be above Mustang'
    Lutz said that with the V6, the Camaro achieves a nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution: “With the V6, it is not a heavy car. The Camaro will be a very lively and engaging car,” he said.

    Lutz would not talk specifically about the Camaro’s pricing. The car is scheduled to go on sale next February as a 2009 (?) model, but Lutz did say GM views the Camaro as better equipped than the Mustang, and the price will be higher.

    The Mustang V6 coupe has a base price of $20,235. The V8 GT coupe begins at $26,825. Both prices include shipping.

    “We are going to be above Mustang,” Lutz said. “We have a very sophisticated suspension system and, frankly, a much nicer interior. We are not going to try and match the Mustang on price. We are going to be premium-priced compared to the Mustang.”
    260 HP 3.6L V6 and a 260 HP 2.0L Turbo I4. I'm a little confused by this...what's the point of offering two engines producing the same HP? Yeah, I know turbo lag and lower torque on the 4 cylinder will make it less of a contender, unless you consider fuel economy. I just don't see any reason for this especially when you figure they'll have to be priced relatively similarly. Also fuel consumption on the V6 seems a little low to me...only 17 city. There are 4th gen LS1s getting better fuel mileage than that.

    Also, how do you guys feel about the premium pricing? I think GM might be taking the wrong route with this...just wait till the Mustang is redesigned in the next year or so with a nice interior and more powerful engine and then GM will be behind the game with an overpriced car that the competitors have at least matched in terms of appeal.
    Last edited by Mike88; 03-20-2008, 11:15 AM.

  • #2
    Re: 4-banger turbo?

    Originally posted by Mike88 View Post
    260 HP 3.6L V6 and a 260 HP 2.0L Turbo I4. I'm a little confused by this...what's the point of offering two engines producing the same HP? Yeah, I know turbo lag and lower torque on the 4 cylinder will make it less of a contender, unless you consider fuel economy. I just don't see any reason for this especially when you figure they'll have to be priced relatively similarly. Also fuel consumption on the V6 seems a little low to me...only 17 city. There are 4th gen LS1s getting better fuel mileage than that.

    Also, how do you guys feel about the premium pricing? I think GM might be taking the wrong route with this...just wait till the Mustang is redesigned in the next year or so with a nice interior and more powerful engine and then GM will be behind the game with an overpriced car that the competitors have at least matched in terms of appeal.
    I concur
    Originally posted by kala
    I'll have buttsecks with Richard Simmons!

    TEAM BLACK!!!
    parting her out

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    • #3
      Re: 4-banger turbo?

      I agree on the pricing...I think GM is going the wrong route. when people go out shopping for cars, number one thing on their mind is price...especially now with all the recession talk. Sure its nice to see that the Camaro will be better than the mustang...but its all about sales. I'm thinking 17 city seems low to me too.

      and does anyone else feel that a 2.0L IF turbo goes against EVERYTHING the Camaro stands for? *sigh*

      1999 Firebird Y87/W68

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      • #4
        Re: 4-banger turbo?

        Originally posted by 99BlackW68 View Post

        and does anyone else feel that a 2.0L IF turbo goes against EVERYTHING the Camaro stands for? *sigh*
        YES! Its like making a 4 cylinder corvette. I mean, making a V6 firebird or camaro was pretty much going low enough for those not able to afford the V8. Just go ahead and make a different car if your are going with a 2.0L.
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        • #5
          Re: 4-banger turbo?

          I don't care if they bring out the 4-cylinder...in fact I think it might be interesting. You guys have to keep in mind that times are changing and fuel isn't so cheap anymore. Yes, we all love V8s, but 300hp from the V6 (if they go with the Caddy set-up, although unlikely) equals HP numbers from V8s that are currently on the market and surpasses the HP ratings from most V8s as early as a decade ago. They say age 40 is the new 50, so maybe V6 is the new V8...idk???

          The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is bringing out two engines with the same output with minor advantages/disadvantages for either (turbo lag and torque vs. MPG)...this isn't going to save GM any money in terms of production costs and probably won't boost sales very much. I can't think of any other car on the market that offers choice of 4, 6, or 8 cylinders.

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          • #6
            Re: 4-banger turbo?

            oh yeah...and 3rd gens in the 80s were available with 4 cylinder engines so its not like it hasen't been done before.

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            • #7
              Re: 4-banger turbo?

              It’s a direct-injected, 3.6-liter four-cam V6. In the CTS, the engine is rated at 304 hp.
              :banana: Direct injection! :banana: Nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution :banana:

              But why would an engine thats out now come with 40 less HP a year from now?! I dont get it?!
              sigpic
              98 Camaro 3.8 M5 Y87 | 99 Camaro LS1 Z28 T56

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              • #8
                Re: 4-banger turbo?

                Originally posted by nimrod.sixty9 View Post
                :banana: Direct injection! :banana: Nearly perfect 50-50 weight distribution :banana:

                But why would an engine thats out now come with 40 less HP a year from now?! I dont get it?!
                it will be a de-tuned version of the CTS engine, much like Camaro's used to have de-tuned Corvette engines.

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                • #9
                  Re: 4-banger turbo?

                  Detuned? Or underrated? Underrating is nothing new over at GM.

                  I would like to see the SS with a LS-A (maybe even a limited run of SS cars with the LS-9), the Z/28 with the LS-3, and the base with a turbo 4. I haven't seen dyno graphs for the new ecotec so I am a little up in the air on that one, but a direct injection setup with a twin scroll turbo does sounds pretty nice. It would also make modded base camaros a lot more potent.

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                  • #10
                    Re: 4-banger turbo?

                    Originally posted by Mike88 View Post
                    oh yeah...and 3rd gens in the 80s were available with 4 cylinder engines so its not like it hasen't been done before.
                    and those are so popular among car ethusiasts pfffttt
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                    • #11
                      Re: 4-banger turbo?

                      Originally posted by Mike88 View Post
                      it will be a de-tuned version of the CTS engine, much like Camaro's used to have de-tuned Corvette engines.
                      I understand Vette to Camaro, but not a Caddy to Camaro... The CTS and base Camaro will not be competition for each other. If someone wants a new CTS, theyre going to get it. They are not going to say "o wow, the numbers on the Camaro are similar, think Ill get a chevy instead". Now Camaro and vette would be a diff story. Both are sexy sports cars, and if both had the same HP, I believe ppl would opt to pay $10K or so less...

                      Making the same numbers on the same car with two diff engines will kill the one thats more expensive...

                      All in all, thats why I cant see why they would do that, when they could have a 300hp car...
                      sigpic
                      98 Camaro 3.8 M5 Y87 | 99 Camaro LS1 Z28 T56

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                      • #12
                        Re: 4-banger turbo?

                        Id like to see a new TransAm or Firebird to be made insead of wasting all that money on stupid sh!t like a 4banger nobody wants a Camaro with a Fourbanger in it so they can bragg to the ricers about "Yeah we like em small to!" Perhaps a Turbo V6 but not a Turbo fourbanger.

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                        • #13
                          Re: 4-banger turbo?

                          Originally posted by Pantera View Post
                          Id like to see a new TransAm or Firebird to be made insead of wasting all that money on stupid sh!t like a 4banger nobody wants a Camaro with a Fourbanger in it so they can bragg to the ricers about "Yeah we like em small to!" Perhaps a Turbo V6 but not a Turbo fourbanger.
                          Yeah I wish Pontiac would dominate the new sports car age with GTO, Trans - Am, G8, Solstice, etc... but GM won't allow it. I guess they are trying to catch up the the new import success, but they seem to worry too much on catching the competition instead of beating it. I think they're scared to go out on a limb and go the other way.
                          Welcome future UK stars... Darius Miller, Deandre Liggins, Kevin Galloway, Josh Harrellson

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                          • #14
                            Re: 4-banger turbo?

                            Originally posted by Pantera View Post
                            Id like to see a new TransAm or Firebird to be made insead of wasting all that money on stupid sh!t like a 4banger nobody wants a Camaro with a Fourbanger in it so they can bragg to the ricers about "Yeah we like em small to!" Perhaps a Turbo V6 but not a Turbo fourbanger.
                            I read this yesterday and meant to post it lol. Anyways If it happens it happens lol I dont think it will last long if it does, then again a good 4 cyl w/great gas mileage could hold strong.

                            Originally posted by josh98bird View Post
                            Yeah I wish Pontiac would dominate the new sports car age with GTO, Trans - Am, G8, Solstice, etc... but GM won't allow it. I guess they are trying to catch up the the new import success, but they seem to worry too much on catching the competition instead of beating it. I think they're scared to go out on a limb and go the other way.
                            As far as I have read on the camaro 5 forum, GM is gearing pontiac towards the sedan/family car market and veering away from sports cars

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                            • #15
                              Re: 4-banger turbo?

                              Originally posted by IwannaCamarosoBad View Post

                              As far as I have read on the camaro 5 forum, GM is gearing pontiac towards the sedan/family car market and veering away from sports cars
                              exactly... they are following the crowd. I think GM got scared when more imports like Honda and how toyota started selling strong. Instead of staying on the path they had in mind, they decided to change things and try to match the import market. I just think they lost alot of their buyers because of their change and not because of the other vehicles availabe. Just my opinion. But thats another thread.
                              Welcome future UK stars... Darius Miller, Deandre Liggins, Kevin Galloway, Josh Harrellson

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