NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

[The Unknown 7]

Alrighty folks, ive been lurkin around here for a while, reading mainly, and asking questions every now and then when i have em. I always had big dreams for this car, now I got the money to make some of them happen.

So here's the low down.. Im workin with a 96, 3.8, auto. The mods so far are only true ram air, 3" exhaust no cat to a flowmaster 80 series, and 3.73s in the rear. The car has about 145k in miles, so as I do this I want to also replace everything that is gonna go out anytime soon. Basically this is what im gonna do, i'm not exactly sure on everything yet, so thats why Im posting a thread in a forum. I've decided on stage 2 heads from abbot racing heads and the gt2 cam from zzp. I want to do everything needed to get this sucker spinning at 7k rpms. The end result im looking for is a trans am in my rear view mirror. When everything is said and done im gonna get hp tuners and tune it myself, which im also going to have to learn how to do. I also want this thread to be as informative as possible, because people are gonna be able to learn from me. This is the biggest job I've done on an engine yet, I've done plenty of smaller jobs, but this is gonna be the one to teach me how to tear a motor apart. So lets save the "use the search button" bull****yadayada, i know everything im gonna ask has already been answered but I want to compile it once again for the novice mechanic that is looking for a powerful NA engine build while also preserving the life of their motor. Lets get as many regulars as possible in on this, cuz one day yall are gonna see one bad *** firebird, and firebirdv6.com made it possible haha.

So, lets start from the begining. This is what I am doing. I'm swapping the heads and the cam, I'm also doing headers at the same time(just going with pacesetter shorties) I am unsure as to what would be the best spring rate for the valve springs, like I said though, I want to spin at 7k. I need to know every part that I should replace now while I've got the motor apart, as well as every part I should upgrade keeping in mind I want to have very high rpms. I've read there's a lot of drama with using a double roller timing chain, however I think its best, so someone please clarify exactly what will need to be done to make that happen with 0 problems. I need to know every single tool I will need for the job. I need to know every single part I will need to upgrade to compensate for the added valve train aspiration. Which injectors should I use? I emailed zzp and asked them what I would need to change regarding the fuel system to support the cam and heads, they told me nothing. Im not a shop, but that goes against everything I've ever heard. They said our fuel pump is fine to over 300rwhp. Wtf? Is it really? Also whats the deal on compression? Should I get my heads milled and use thinner(thinner is best for na right?) head gaskets? How much more power could I get from that? Im not gonna do things like ported intake,tb, electric water pump or any of that YET, I just need to know everything I'll need to support the cam and heads. I mean EVERYTHING.
Every tool
Every bolt, gasket, nut
Every guide, tutorial, website, article, post, manual etc..
And every supporting mod and and upgrade I havent done or mentioned already. This is gonna be the beginning of one bad *** ride for me, i thought about getting a v8, I actually could. But id feel much better smoking a v8 with a v6 that I built myself. So lets make it happen. Everybodies help and input is appreciated. I havent bought anything yet, I have the money I just need to get a list of everything Im gonna need together and then it's time to get started. Im gonna keep this thread as kind of like a journal, both for me and everyone else who wants to do what im doing. so i'll keep it updated. maybe even pics of progress? i dunno we'll see. thanks guys!

[Choppers]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

I would maybe talk to abbott about what you want. Your buying his heads so he may be able to make you a custom grind cam to better suit you wants. Also will you ever run nitrous? That plays a role in deciding parts.

[The Unknown 7]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

Nah man i dont think so. Like I said its got a lot of miles so I dont want to push it too hard. Nitrous sounds like too much of a gamble for what Im using it for. I MIGHT consider it but if I do it'll be way after this. And I thought about a custom, but the gt2 sounds fine to me. Unless I could get even more power than that..

[LETZRIDE]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

first off I don't believe the GT2 makes decent power going to 7000, I believe it really only makes power until 6300 ish...so you may want to choose a new cam if you want to go to 7000

2ndly, I am not sure that our bottom end is really strong enough to be spinning 7000...not sure what you would need to upgrade down there.

double timing chain will be a must if you are spinning that high.

you will gain maybe 1-2% by raising your compression a few pts...

[Bandit127]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

Nah man i dont think so. Like I said its got a lot of miles so I dont want to push it too hard. Nitrous sounds like too much of a gamble for what Im using it for. I MIGHT consider it but if I do it'll be way after this. And I thought about a custom, but the gt2 sounds fine to me. Unless I could get even more power than that..

Bold and 7K don't mix. your best bet would be to rebuild from the bottom, new rings and get a fresh rotating assembly under it before you start with the top end. Otherwise you'll just blow it up. Mileage + high rpms is never a happy ending.

Also, ingenuity. Yes, use the search function, THEN post what you did and how on this thread if you want people to use it as a one-stop, get your info and get out; thread. We shouldn't have to point out which bolt is where and what size is it. Thats basic tool knowledge. Now, specialty tools, like angle wheels and engine blueprinting, yes we can help. But don't expect to get everything drawn out. We have someone doing that, and it's frustrating to try and answer every question.


What do you expect to get from 7000rpms? These aren't supercharged top fuelers, so your going to have trouble getting fuel and AIR to your cylinders in a controlled way. Your best bet for power is in a much lower rpm range.
Rant aside, you know enough to get some stuff done. Lets seeya do it. :)

[LETZRIDE]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

in all honesty I think it is much better for you and anyone else to do the research to find out what you need...after you have researched then ask...reason being is, you can better set your car up that way...you know exactly what you are putting in, and can custom taylor what you want to your needs. Not listen to what other people think you should have and do that...if thats the case you mine as well let someone else build the car for you.

No one really copies anyone else's build, so any other new person is still going to have to do all the research if they want to a nice setup for themselves...if you/they want to copy one specific persons build, then you/they can email that specific person and get specs on there exact build.

Bottom line is there is just soooo much damn information that it can't just be compiled into one go to thread...not in detail, not in depth...there are way too many questions to be answered, so many different combinations and results that will occur due to combinations.


took me several months to do the research for my cam setup...Ive been searching and reading about heads for just as long...Ive been lurking and waiting and debating on my setup...finally something came along and I got it...now I have my "heads and stuff" thread, where I tried to acquire a ton of info on pushrods because I have read every thread on every v6 forum that I am on that has to do with pushrods and I could not get one clear cut answer.

Ask for clarification anytime you need it...don't ask to be spoon fed.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

Abbot went 12.48 NA.....

7K is fin on the stock bottom end, he did have a rod go out after countless passes, but simple upgrade to the L32 rods will remedy that.

to go that fast you'll need large cam and bad *** head like lance had. i think he even angle milled his heads for more compression

[bwkmaro]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

well for my input i would new rods like turbo v6 said and new pistons just incase you ever decide to run turbo, nitrous, or procharger. plus they will hold up to much more abuse.
then as for a cam that gt2 cam is not even close to big enough for the power you want get a custom grind cam from abbot and those heads will prob be good along with the pacesetters but IMO i would throw the flow master away and get a straight through like a borla (just the muffler your piping should be fine). also port & polish your upper and lower intake manifolds.
then and someone correct me if im wrong you should get stronger push rods at 7k our stock ones will be stressing a little....
for your tranny get a higher stall converter at least 3k with a 2.0 multiplyer (fun :D) also a corvette servo(cheap but very nice upgrade and easy to do)
oh and b4 you even think about buying any parts get hptuners first and learn how to use it. also get a wideband o2 sensor with a gauge so you can accually tune your car
and zzp is right our fuel system is fine to 300hp but you will need injectors, which you can run gtp injectors (36pound) for sum extra play room with out the heavy cost cause they are stockers on gtps...
well thats all i have for now

[darkflare999]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

sounds like this will be a good thread....watching!

[ssms5411]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

in all honesty I think it is much better for you and anyone else to do the research to find out what you need...after you have researched then ask...reason being is, you can better set your car up that way...you know exactly what you are putting in, and can custom taylor what you want to your needs. Not listen to what other people think you should have and do that...if thats the case you mine as well let someone else build the car for you.

No one really copies anyone else's build, so any other new person is still going to have to do all the research if they want to a nice setup for themselves...if you/they want to copy one specific persons build, then you/they can email that specific person and get specs on there exact build.

Bottom line is there is just soooo much damn information that it can't just be compiled into one go to thread...not in detail, not in depth...there are way too many questions to be answered, so many different combinations and results that will occur due to combinations.


took me several months to do the research for my cam setup...Ive been searching and reading about heads for just as long...Ive been lurking and waiting and debating on my setup...finally something came along and I got it...now I have my "heads and stuff" thread, where I tried to acquire a ton of info on pushrods because I have read every thread on every v6 forum that I am on that has to do with pushrods and I could not get one clear cut answer.

Ask for clarification anytime you need it...don't ask to be spoon fed.

I want to see what Letzride N/A build does , he hs one alot of research on his and should be pretty bad@ss N/A an will be able to do FI or any power adder down the road.

[Bandit127]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

Abbot went 12.48 NA.....

Yea, but was on it a motor with 140,XXX miles? I know the bottom end is great, but the mileage will be the downfall. I was just saying that because I seriously doubt the rings will hold at that RPM.

[97rs4life]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

sounds like this will be a good thread....watching!

only if the OP opens his wallet and gets beyond all talk ;)

[The Unknown 7]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

Ok guys I'm not asking for anything to be handed to me, I've been researching for months as well and can't find all of the answers I need, and I also would like second opinions from people that have already done this and know what they're talking about, which is what I'm getting so I def appreciate it. So I'll stick to clarification then. I don't fell like quoting a million people so I'll just answer the ?s I remember..
As to the bottom end not holding up, I don't want to push it like I said, so if you guys are saying that's not a bright idea then maybe I should spin a little lower. Unfortunately my own 2 hands and wallet are all I have to do this with, so I don't think I can mess with the bottom end just yet, as much as id like to. I don't wanna get in too deep. Ok... so what would be yalls recommendation for rev limits then? I wanna go as far as I can without risking any damage. And whoever brought up the exhaust, one day its getting true dual borlad pro xs's, but that's at the bottom of my to do list.

[Choppers]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

I would throw the GT2 out. Just my opinion. There are better options out there. The FWD cars seemed from my reading to do better on it and the Abbott N/A cam seemed to do better on the fbody's. I could be wrong but everyone can chime in. To get the most out of the cam and be durable I would:

Cam(Whatever you decide)
Timing chain(Single or Double)
Comp Cam OE Lifters
Pushrods
Valve Spring
Viton Valve Seals
Comp Cam Locks
Modded Retainers
Head Gaskets since your that close(New head bolts since they are TTY)
Clean Heads Up(P&P if you want, Mill them, Blast them, Reseat Valves)
New Gaskets

Going to be more money than you think.:rock:

[Choppers]

Re: NA Engine Rebuild (Cam+Heads+Etc.)

And why do a cam if it can't breathe? Also do you have a intake? You need to start with basics first then work your way to this stuff.