FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa! - FirebirdV6.com/CamaroV6.com Message Board

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  • FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

    Some members may be familiar with the project car I'm building for the Camaro Homepage (www.camarohomepage.com). In fact, this '01 has been covered in print by "Popular Hot Rodding" (2003), "Camaro Performers" (2005-2007) and an engine series in "Pontiac Enthusiast" (2010) along with being on the web at the CHpg since 2008.

    Because it's been in print and on the web for so long and is also a daily driver, the car has accumulated a lot of miles for a project vehicle, a little over 50,000. Much of that mileage has been pretty brutal--road testing and many, many chassis dyno runs. For the next part of the "Tom Henry RS" project we're going to cover some service/maintenance tasks as well as some new mods. Part 5 will get posted this coming Spring.

    Back in '05-'06, when I was doing the first round of engine work for the "Camaro Performers" series, I was active on another GM V6-oriented web site. Some of the members there were pretty aggressive in flaming some aspects of the project. One issue which provoked controversy was my use of a single row timing chain in the valvetrain of a mod'ed engine. I caught some flack for that from people who believed that the only thing to use in a hotted-up 3800 was a double-row chain, without one, my engine was going to blow-up in short order and I was a imbecile to ignore such an obvious fact.

    Two-row chains require removal of the engine's balance shaft and I was unwilling to do that because I wanted its damping effect on idle and low-rpm engine shake. I posted to that effect was immediately flamed (some more) then branded some kind of sissy, in addition to being an idiot.

    Well, 50,000 miles later I decided: why not "call the bluff" and inspect the timing chain and sprockets? I decided to take this idea farther and measure timing chain slack of my 50,000 mile chain and one out of a new Rollmaster timing set.

    What'd I find?

    With the chain tensioner removed, chain slack of both the old chain the new one was virtually the same, .530-in. +/- a few thousandths, so, for practical purposes, there was no chain stretch after 50,000 miles.

    Using some bright lighting and a magnifier, I inspected the teeth on the cam sprocket. There was minimal wear, in fact, the little wear I could see looked more like break-in wear which burnished marks left by machining.

    Bottom line: For my valvetrain configuration (206/212° duration .530 lift Comp Cam, Katech valve springs, titanium retainers, Yella Terra 1.8:1 roller rockers) and duty cycle (street-high performance, frequent dyno testing, 6200 rpm rev limit), Rollmaster, single-row chains are, clearly, quite durable. The belief that a double-row chain is required for such use is a big stinking pile of :bs:

    Rollmaster chain sets are made in Australia and Rollmaster's U.S. distributor is Engine Pro (www.engineproparts.com)

    The project series is at: http://www.camarohomepage.com/project/index.htm

  • #2
    Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

    I think the flaming came because some of the very early single rollers had problems, like breaking. Harland sharp used to make Roller rockers for these motors too, but they had problems. Before I bought Yella Terra 1.9's I emailed Custom speed parts about them and they wouldn't reply. When do you think the next installment will post to the Camaro home page?
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

      I have the magazine too that features your camaro. Where are you at in S. Calif.?

      I live in the Corona/Riverside area.

      1998 Firebird . 1989 Firebird XS . 1986 Fiero GT

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      • #4
        Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

        i have heard horrible things about tom henry chevy

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        • #5
          Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

          Was this the car that ran really high 14's with the cam and other work done to it? I vaguely remember a lot of people not being happy about the results beibng published and the amount of work done...I think a lot of people felt it looked bad on the community as it showed a limited potential for these cars...I could be confusiing it with another camaro though.

          I'd be interested to read the new installments...when are they out?

          2002 SOM Z28 Camaro - 12.9 @ 104 mph
          1996 3800 Camaro - 13.43 @ 100.77 mph


          Project Cars | How To Guides | Scratch Repair | Synthetic Oil

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          • #6
            Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

            I've been a member on that "other V6 site" for quite awhile and was on there when you got what was far from a warm welcome. Some of the protest was due to the delivery and approach to modding the V6. I've spent a lot of time doing research and reading on these 3.8's and yet almost all my learning came about from actually getting my hands nasty. I've made some mistakes along the way, and made changes. I've also posted extensively about it as some of the knowledge just gets locked up under somebody's hat.

            Just look a few posts down in this section under my project thread, I have documented my build almost as well as some magazines.

            If I can get 50K miles out of my motor, I'll be very happy. I've gone about 8K miles since I fired it back up in February.

            I'm running a single chain on PAC 130# springs, many guys run single chains here as of late. The old issue was the chains were weak so most people ran doubles. The singles do just fine now, but 50K miles is where most euro vehicles are serviced to replace their timing belts anyway... I don't plan on spending a lot of time racing this car, so a double roller would have been a waste.

            I honestly would love to see true 1/4 mile times at a track. Nothing like driving a car to and from the track while putting out numbers below stock.

            Secondly, I hope to see your group get their hands on HPTuners or go to a shop that has it and get it dyno tuned. It is truly worth your money as there isn't anything else on the market that comes close without going to a standalone like BigStuff or a Motec ECU.

            I also hope you had a good chance to talk to John at Scoggin ****ey Parts Center, as he helped me out with the build process for my car. He's seen first hand what works and what doesn't and been right next to me during the teething process for this project.
            Last edited by WarShrike; 01-02-2011, 11:31 PM.

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            • #7
              Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

              Hey Your gonna get alot of slack for going against what few have said "it needs to be this way". I feel your pain. lol

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              • #8
                Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                Originally posted by LETZRIDE View Post
                Was this the car that ran really high 14's with the cam and other work done to it? I vaguely remember a lot of people not being happy about the results beibng published and the amount of work done...I think a lot of people felt it looked bad on the community as it showed a limited potential for these cars...I could be confusiing it with another camaro though.

                I'd be interested to read the new installments...when are they out?
                You have to remember though that this is a California car. You know, Smog Capital, EPA hotbed, etc. Unlike where some of you can get away from long tube headers, gutted cat, egr delete, computer tuning and so on.

                The way he modded his car is very complaint to smog regulation just like mine. IT's a PITA, but that's the price we pay to live in Calif.

                1998 Firebird . 1989 Firebird XS . 1986 Fiero GT

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                • #9
                  Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                  Mind you, there are some V6 guys that have gone 12's on a wild cam and stock exhaust. :)

                  Granted they're stock eliminator class cars with a cam that eats valvesprings for lunch, but it is all possible. It probably wouldn't pass smog either...
                  Last edited by WarShrike; 01-03-2011, 12:03 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                    I'm setup to pass smog...its very strict over here as well...but Im just pointing out why I think some of the flak happened ...people dont like to see low numbers...

                    2002 SOM Z28 Camaro - 12.9 @ 104 mph
                    1996 3800 Camaro - 13.43 @ 100.77 mph


                    Project Cars | How To Guides | Scratch Repair | Synthetic Oil

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                      Still love when David Doolittle made it on pass time. The guys asked him how much he was making out of his "little V6."

                      "300+hp all motor."

                      *Eating of crow began immediately for that crew* Especially after he clicked off a 12 second run, car has gone 11s!

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                      • #12
                        Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                        It's been a while since I made the lead post here.

                        Originally posted by Mighty Thor View Post
                        I have the magazine too that features your camaro. Where are you at in S. Calif.?

                        I live in the Corona/Riverside area.
                        I'm in West Covina but soon moving to Goleta.

                        Originally posted by LETZRIDE View Post
                        Was this the car that ran really high 14's with the cam and other work done to it? I vaguely remember a lot of people not being happy about the results beibng published and the amount of work done...I think a lot of people felt it looked bad on the community as it showed a limited potential for these cars...I could be confusiing it with another camaro though.

                        I'd be interested to read the new installments...when are they out?
                        It is the same car. I disagree that the project reflected badly on the potential of 3.8L F-cars. It reflected badly on me 'cause I didn't drive the car very well during the testing. Magazine deadlines what they are, there wasn't time for a "redo" so I took it to press.

                        The next installment of the web based version of the series is Pt 5 and is nearly done. In fact, we were set to post it last week, but then we had some trouble with the Edelbrock Shocks we put on as part of another suspension upgrade. We had to delay while we switch to some other shock package. Right now we're looking at QA1.

                        Originally posted by Mighty Thor View Post
                        You have to remember though that this is a California car. You know, Smog Capital, EPA hotbed, etc. Unlike where some of you can get away from long tube headers, gutted cat, egr delete, computer tuning and so on.

                        The way he modded his car is very complaint to smog regulation just like mine. IT's a PITA, but that's the price we pay to live in Calif.
                        In fact, the car is due for the biennial CA Smog Check next month. I'll report on how the car does.

                        Originally posted by WarShrike View Post
                        Still love when David Doolittle made it on pass time. The guys asked him how much he was making out of his "little V6."

                        "300+hp all motor."

                        *Eating of crow began immediately for that crew* Especially after he clicked off a 12 second run, car has gone 11s!
                        Well...I'm pretty far from "300+". More like about 255 on the motor and maybe 315 with nitrous oxide. Not bad for a "smog legal" car with 103,000 total miles and about 50,000 on the current engine configuration.

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                        • #13
                          Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                          I really would like to see how the smog goes on this car I built my car and I'm in So cal to and the turbo set up didn't help it either but my car would not even come close to pass smog.

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                          • #14
                            Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                            Single chain is good to go? Makes it easier for me.

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                            • #15
                              Re: FIFTY THOUSAND miles on a project car motor...Whoa!

                              Originally posted by insaneABOT View Post
                              I really would like to see how the smog goes on this car I built my car and I'm in So cal to and the turbo set up didn't help it either but my car would not even come close to pass smog.
                              I'll gladly post the results of the smog check when I get it done in a few weeks.

                              Comment

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