SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

[FIREBIRDV6RAGE]

Thanks for the link man

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

[Docta]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

Am I the only one that pulled it out the top? Did my swap in just over 15 hours.

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

With the right tools and experience, I'm sure out and back in from underneath can be done in under 10 hours. The same could be said about out the top I'm sure. I just figured it was less of a hassle to do it this way. I pulled out the bottom on a lift last year, so i knew exactly what to do this time around. I did spend a lot of time running back and forth to my parents place for some of my dads tools, otherwise the new engine might already be in the car..lol

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

Made some more progress today and should have the engine in the car tomorrow (Sunday). Got the new engine all finished up, mounted to the K-member, and bolted up the transmission.

I decided not to switch to the tubular K-member and just stick with the stock one. What led to this decision? Michigan roads. I bent a rim on the Trans Am this past week on a Grand Canyon sized pothole on I-94 and decided that the extra beefy stock frame was worth the weight when it comes to living and driving here. This past winter was especially bad on the roads here and you can't find a smooth road to save your life right now.

Anyway, time for some pics:

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

Well the engine made its way into the car last weekend, and I finished getting it all put together yesterday in hopes of having it on the road last night. I ran into some issues though... of course. She won't start. Crank, crank, crank...no start. I've checked all connections on the harness, all grounds, everything. The only changes in the electrical system were new pigtails for the injectors and coil pack relocation to the firewall. I've gone over those and everything else, the engine has spark, has fuel, has compression, but won't fire. It turns over and every once in a while it will try to fire, but it fires one cylinder then back to nothing again. I'm at a loss as to why it won't run. A friend suggested putting the crank sensor from my old engine on it instead of the on off the new motor, but between me and 2 friends looking at it and going over everything, we can't find anything that would cause it to not run. Any of you guys ever have similar issues or know what else I can check?

[ssms5411]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

I would double check the spark plug wires on the coils, also if your going to switch the crank sensor might as well get a new AC Delco one and put on it. Thats what I'm doing with mine since its almost 20 years old. Once you get it running you'll need a case learn most likely also.

[htmabe]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

You said in your post you checked the big 3 . Fire ,fuel and compression. Imho next thing for dam sure I would run down is timing. If it's off it's not gonna start. Did you change computer? Case relearn and crank sensor all relate to timing. I guess I'm saying you should check the big 4 . Fire fuel compression and TIMING. Anything related to timing that's off will make it not fire and "almost" fire.

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

It's hard to tell, but this pic from page 5 shows my timing setup as installed. It matches up with the pic from ZZP for 0° timing. Not shown is the cam timing magnet which I'm sure I put in th matching hole from the stock timing gear.





Unless I'm blind and missing something, I don't know what's going on.

[htmabe]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

The picture looks correct. Both the one of the motor and the zzp photo shot. The triangle lines up with the dot for zero degrees. Cam position looks right too. So that rules that out. What about the other things related to starting the motor using "timing" as an example keeping in mind you said you have the big three. The computer has to know where the crank harmonic balancer is to command coils to spark at the correct time this is done through the crank sensor which prob runs off a fuse or relay as does the fuel pump so make sure to check that stuff too. What ever it is it's prob stupid and minor such as a fuse. Btw the relay for fuel pump is on the drivers side under the kick plate and when you turn your key on you should be able to hear the pump humming faintly behind you back at the tank. Also try a little ether, spray it in see if she a runner. Eliminate the whole fuel system that way. Then there's that whole case relearn thing too. If the computer in car is not matched to the balancer then that too needs to be done. What are your compression readings on the gauge?

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

Well one of the signs that she's getting fuel is the smell of gasoline under and behind the car after trying to start it. The smell is definitely coming out of the exhaust. I can hear the pump prime and there's fuel in the rails. The injectors are all getting 12 volts and tested with a test light are showing a pulse when cranking.

When grounding a spark plug to the block while cranking, it got a good spark off the number 1 coil.

I guess my next step is to pull the cam sensor to double check the magnet is in the right hole, although I'm 99% sure it is. Then try swapping the balancer and crank sensor for the ones off my old engine. The balancer and sensor on it now are off the newer fwd engine.

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

:cool:
Still needs to be tuned, but she's alive!



Same vid, just on youtube

[htmabe]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

So the big question, what was it??

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

Well several people that had listened to the car trying to start said that it sounded like the cam was 180° off, which we know is not possible if you line up the timing marks correctly on the cam and crank timing gears. The issue was in fact human error on my part. I didn't pay close enough attention and assumed the "0" mark on the end of the crank snout was indicating where the key was. So when I put on the balancer, I lined up the keyway with the "0" on the crankshaft. Turns out that the "0" is actually 180° from the crank key and in the process of tightening and torquing the crank bolt, I actually forced the key out of the groove and back farther into the timing gear. Also, the newer L26 balancer is much harder to gauge where its keyway is compared to our stock L36 balancers. It is also a very snug fit and must be "pressed on" with the crank bolt as you tighten it down, whereas the L36 balancer slipped on far enough to know it was lined up with the key correctly.

I did have to take the timing cover off and clean out some ground metal shavings from part of the key, but there was no major damage. Thankfully I could do this in the car and didn't have to pull the engine out again. I ended up using the stock L36 balancer instead of the newer L26 one.

[CFreed11]

Re: SLP Firebird GT : Build Thread

I suppose I ought to update this. Had the car dyno tuned by ZZ Performance in Grand Rapids, MI. "Turbo Tim" basically just made a few fueling adjustments to what I already had, the car put down 242rwhp/234rwtq on their Mustang dyno. I wasn't very satisfied with what ZZP was able to get out of it. Really, it seemed like he didn't do any tuning at all, just smoothed out what I already had. I'll still buy a few parts from them, but I don't think I'll be having any service or tuning done by ZZP in the future.

Over the next 2 weeks I adjusted the timing and a/f a little bit and put the car on the Track Lab Dynojet dyno at the Lane Automotive car show. With my adjustments, it put down 248rwhp/239rwtq. The car "felt" quicker on the road, but the dyno results were negligible. As you can see, I actually lost HP and TQ compared to the more mild cam last year. I believe this is due to the loss of compression over the ARH heads. Those put me around 10.7:1, where the current heads have me around 9.9:1. Between these results and talking to a few others, it appears that I'm pretty close to the limit for a naturally aspirated 3800. About the only left for me to do is to pull the heads off and have them milled down to bring my compression back up. I'd rather not go turbo, but I'm starting to lean that way. The thing is, as the engine is currently configured, it would be great for a turbo, just swap to a turbo cam. Or, mill the heads and keep it N/A. We'll see what happens.

The car is done for the year though. I pulled the exhaust off it and will be running a new true dual setup over the winter. The current true duals were what I learned to weld on and there were a few pinhole leaks and the cheap ebay v-bands never fully sealed correctly. I'll most likely run a mild steel instead of the stainless, with an x-pipe this time and 2- and 3-bolt flanges to hold the sections together. I'm also considering different mufflers as much as I would like to keep it SLP.