building a engine with a supercharger or not

[russell1]

Im new to this site so if I do something wrong just let me know but I have a 2002 camaro v6 3.8 im wanting to rebuild it and bore it over to a .020 of a inch and p/p the heads and get a new cam and was thinking about new rockers. But Ive looked into the information that everyone as posted and its been helpful but I was wondering about putting a supercharger on it and is it really worth doing or just keeping it n/a. Thanks for the help and look forward to hearing form everyone

[Docta]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

If you're talking about the Eaton blower off of a Grand Prix etc, then you either need to have fab skills and equipment, or don't attempt it. If you're buying a bolt-on Powerdyne kit, then it's definitely worth it. Personally, I went turbo and haven't regretted it once. The 3.8 loves boost, and handles it very well.

[russell1]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

Ive done some research and thats what everyone was saying about the grand prix ive read that people have used the powerdyne kit but was wondering about is it worth it? And how much horsepower do you think it could get from the recommended 7psi. I know theres not a definite answer but was just wondering I was hoping to do a rebuild and maybe a supercharger and get about 350 to 400 horsepower. Thank you for replying

[russell1]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

What is the cost for powerdyne kit and everything you meed?

[ssms5411]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

After having a Powerdyne kit new for several years , then nitrous for a few years and then a turbo. I would say turbo hands down. Better boost capabilities for your Hp goal and more efficient than a supercharger. Also its cheaper than a supercharger. Just do supporting mods and your good to go. Also don't cheap out on tuning, make sure your have Hptuners and a wideband and tune it properly.

[russell1]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

What would be a good set up with a turbo. I know how they work just never looked into it. I usually like making power n/a

[Nas Escobar]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

Well, IDK how others have done it but I personally would get the L67 top end and boost it that way. Since the L67 was already built for forced induction it would be a lot easier than having a full blown L36 and slapping a turbo on it. I've heard the stock internals can take up to 7 or so PSI of boost but why chance it when you can easily get L67 stuff and do turbo instead of S/C?

So really, what I'm trying to say is to do supporting mods, turbo itself should come last. AS far as the turbo itself, all depends what you want out of it and your budget. You could easily get a turbocharger out of a Saab or a Volvo and adapt it to your application. I don't want to tell you shoot for a certain PSI because idk how much supporting mods you'll do but I would go for 10 or 15 PSI and build it up to handle up to 20 or 25PSI max. At this point, you would probably have to buy something aftermarket, like a Garrett T/C.

[2.8 Bird]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

I have the Powerdyne SC on my Bird since 1998 and I really like the feel of it. I also had a turbo WRX car in the past.

One thing about SC is that it behaves like an engine and boost is linear. It's got a nice bottom to top feel to it. If you're willing to invest 1k more you can actually improve the CFM of the Powerdyne and get boost an even low end.

With the Turbo, boost doesn't come on till 3 - 3.5k rpm (depends on your set up) and when it does come on it slaps you on the back and pulls you hard. That's because you get the full boost vs. the linear boost. Underdriving condition it feels like a normal car. It just depends on your taste. Turbo just has more power potential. Powerdyne is limited because it is belt driven which has parasitic lost and it has internal belt instead of gears, which limits it even more. It can be unreliable, but knock on wood I haven't had any problems with mine.

Vector Performance dyno tested a 6psi Powerdyne on a stock 1995 V6 Camaro (including stock exhaust) and it came out to be 256rwhp. I've seen this car in person BTW and I have the magazine too. This is without any tuning. Just a direct bolt on. I'm guessing a 7psi will get you 265-270rwhp. It can be more with aggressive tuning.

If you plan on going the Root Blower way there's a nice write up on the Force Induction section.

[ssms5411]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

If your wanting 350-400 HP at the wheels, a supercharger won't do it. I modded my 3.8 with 9.5:1 forged pistons, cam and other mods and then had a 928 rebuild on the Powerdyne running 8-10LBs of boost( was a 2.6" pulley, couldn't go lower without major belt slippage). Had it tuned with Hptuners and dynoed 288 Wrhp and 330 TQ. Also with the Powerdyne it doesn't like heat and will break its internal belt when pushed hard. There was no more left in the Powerdyne. With my turbo which is a Garrett GT35R with a .63 AR wheel and at 2000 RPMS to 3000 RPMS it was boosting between 7-10LBs of boost. I later found out why I was over boosting due to my vacuum lines being mixed up, my wastegate had a 10lb spring and it was going to 17-20lbs on my boost gauge. If your going to spend the money, I would go turbo you can run your boost levels to what suits you and get your desired HP goals.

[2.8 Bird]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

If your wanting 350-400 HP at the wheels, a supercharger won't do it. I modded my 3.8 with 9.5:1 forged pistons, cam and other mods and then had a 928 rebuild on the Powerdyne running 8-10LBs of boost( was a 2.6" pulley, couldn't go lower without major belt slippage). .

Actually Turbo is alot more expensive than SC. Cartuning is selling theirs for over 3k and if you buy that along with an intercooler it is well over 4k. Compare to $2.7k PD and 3.5K ATI with an intercooler. Of course both systems can be cheap if you do the fabbing. Turbo would be even cheaper because the head unit is not as expensive as a SC.

I fixed that problem with slippage btw. I can pull a 9psi out of a 6lbs pulley meant for 6psi. It's very strong and fast and I only have a soft tune with FMU and stock injectors and no computer tuning..

Nobody is selling Powerdyne anymore anyway. There's a SC that's a rip off of the PD called Raptor, but I'm not sure if it can be adopted to the existing bracket that James Bawkey started with. Hardly anyone is selling this kit for our V6 anymore. If you find a used one they can be anywhere $900-1200.

The only thing about PD is that it runs cool compare to turbo and gear driven SC. Turbo needs an intercooler to be effective and it heats up the entire engine bay itself. But ofcourse you can always wrap the hot side.

Yeah, 9lbs is pretty much all you can do with the PD, which is ideal anyway for our stock engine. Which will probably give you a little over 300rwhp with a good tune. But if you want more than that then Turbo will do the job.

Of course 928 Motorsport has improved the PD with their new impeller producing 1400cfm compare to stock 800-900cfm and they have air cooler pumps for the internals. They also designed an intercooler too. Some of their 928 Porches are running 16psi of boost and putting down 680rwhp and doing well on endurance races.

Anyway, I'm just sharing that info there. Since PD is rare now and Root Blower takes a lot more to fabricate, Turbo is really the only and best option left for our V6.

[2.8 Bird]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

I really miss the old days though when Stephan was running his bird with the fabricated Procharger and Jen (Pathogen) went off from Stephan's and improved the bracket design for her bird. Shirl was running her Camaro with an RKSport PD and Thor and Ed had theirs installed at Vector Performance. Mach Performance came out with their ATI Kit. Tiago fab his turbo and started selling it as a kit. Later on Car Tuning came out with their Turbo Kit. Then someone fabbed a Vortech SC off of a PD bracket, but it slipped badly. And a couple of guys installed Root Blowers on our V6, which a lot of guys back then said it couldn't be done.

Yeah, I really miss it.

[russell1]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

Oh wow thanks for all the info. I've looked and haven't seen the pb so I guess thats out of the question. So the gt35r with a .63 AR wheel has been work working good? Because I know with a turbo or sc they both have to have supported mods. What all would you recommend for supported mods for a turbo? And how much do you think it would roughly cost?

[russell1]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

And also im trying to my best to keep and eye on this thread but its alittle hard since im deployed overseas right now. Im trying my best so be patient with me and im also new to this. Thank you

[ssms5411]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

I would say supporting mods would be a walbro 255 fuel pump, at least 42lb or 65lb injectors(I would go 65lb more growing room and easier to tune than 42's and cost about the same) , wideband 02, Hptuners, fuel pressure gauge , boost guage, and for the turbo you'll need a BOV, wastegate, and adjustable boost controller is a nice touch(and their pretty cheap). Since your building the engine a turbo cam would be best. Then you have to decide on what valve springs your going to run and timing chain( single or double). If your going to run aftermarket heads, pushrods, lifters, head gasket thickness and theres plenty more to decide. I would look at some turbo builds like Docta, his has been doing well.

[russell1]

Re: building a engine with a supercharger or not

I was thinking running with the stock heads and just p/p and go with a turdo cam shaft springs. Would I need to get aftermarket pushrods, li#ters and a head gasket. So what do you think it would cost?