Dropping a perverbial nuke on the sport compact world....

[Radio Flyer]

The engine is a 25524139 casting. It's an old school buick 3.8 casting. It has the numbers all over the block. The heads match the description of 8445 castings. (Side bolt valve covers, shaft rockers.) The tranny is a TH-125C. It's the same engine block from a GN, just without the turbo, in a light FWD chassis. No Olds Ciera ever came like this. Sorry I didn't post more pics earlier. I put them in another thread.

engine


Pictures as promised. They aren't meant to be beautiful until I'm done with them. What I pulled of was a slight surprise, and should yield decent butt-dyno gains.


Here's the intake after she's been cleaned up a bit. Any takers on what it came off of? The thermostat gasket I found by looking under RWD Regal...weird... the intake part number is 25524316.

intake

Here's where it got really interesting. What I'm searching for are restrictions that make a big difference in flow. Reading what some of you have here, plus a few details in the port, wind me around to a particular conclusion. This intake is fresh off the block after about 60k miles of service. Desposits collect in crevices, and along the walls and what not. The black marks you see here, surrounding the port, exactly match a pattern of ugly carbon colored crud on it's matching cylinder head ports. This reduction in size on the manifold port, makes a significant restriction in the total port flow. The beauty of it is, it's just there that the casting necks down right at the manifold opening. The entire port doesn't do that. Around the injector boss' opening and in the lower part of the manifold, there is some ugly flash, splatter, and ridges that can be taken care of. I'm glad it's mostly within easy reach. polishing deeper in there should be easier with a flex shaft dremel. The port is narrower near the plenum and much smoother. This'll mostly be a polish job. Some may complain of fuel puddling, but this is a dry manifold with the injectors at the bottom.

ports

The TB will be hand ported. It smoothes out pretty easily being aluminum. (I know there's a bolt missing out of it...The one in there is just a bit more stubborn) One thing I'm looking at is the IAC area. It can me smoothed internall rather easily and has it's ugly little humps, too. I'm wondering it could improve throttle response to smooth that area. At the very least it can't hurt. I'll post pix when done. The engine bay deserves a before and after shot ;) .

throttle body

[ March 07, 2004, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: Radio Flyer ]

[Vyse]

http://www.lesabret.com/engine10.jpg
LC2
http://www.lesabret.com/engine8b.jpg
LG3-3, 3.8

I find it interesting that you have an LC2 block, but have all of the correct brackets, intake and heads from a LG3-3. All the accessories are there, too. Oh, the intake is from a FWD C or H body Buick, Olds or Pontiac. I'm also willing to bet that engine is a 3.0 from an '86-'87 LeSabre.
The 8445 casting is not Turbo Regal specific. The FWD 3.8 with solid lifters used them as well.
http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html
25524139 from what I can find is not a RWD 3.8 casting. If you could share your source that says it is I would appreiciate it. :rolleyes: [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

[ March 07, 2004, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: Vyse ]

[Radio Flyer]

I'm pointing to the fact that a bunch of this stuff DOESN'T match up with what came off the showroom floor. Look at my engine picture a bit closer...notice the valve cover bolts aren't the same as the FWD engine you picture? They match the lc2. The engine says GM 3.8 on the side of the block and up near the top rear left cylinder head. If I can find the casting numbers I can find that, too :rolleyes: . The HEI(EST) is what never made sense, going with the 20 bolt pan (ohh..counting bolts...don't leave your keyboard, you might get dirty. [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img] ). Which gnttype.org says didn't come until 1985. This car is an 84. But, the HEI and what not looks like the old unit that came on the car.

the car

the head

a sideways turbo reagal block?

After looking up the vin and comparing it to a Chilton manual, it's a 3.8 that originally came in it from the factory. But the hard stuff looks like turbo regal parts except for the ignition, intake, exhaust, and HEI...all bolt on parts from the previous engine are there.

The casting numbers and looks of the hard stuff (block, heads.) resemble buick turbo engine parts. The accessories, to me, appear to be the only difference. That's my whole point of posting here, doinking with the car, and trying to get more power out of it.

Does it or does it not have the same parts as some turbo regals/GN's?

[ March 07, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Radio Flyer ]

[Vyse]

Well, mounting a TR block to a FWD tranny can't happen. The RWD 3.8 uses a different bell housing than the FWD 3.8. It's the old school BOP style. Buick, Olds and Pontiac all had their own V8s. The Hydramatic division didn't have a different tranny for each. The bell housing would include all of the holes to bolt up any variety of blocks(307, 350, 403). FWD are metric. You don't have a Turbo block. The turbos didn't have PCV they had breather filter. Your engine does not. Regardless of the bolt pattern on the valve covers(don't have an answer yet) it doesn't mean you have something special. The only thing about that motor that is close to a TR block is the heads and the fact it has the same bore and stoke.
You could buy forged pistons and rods and all of the custom work in the world, but you still have a plain jane 3.8. The bottom end can't/won't hold up. You'll be sending pieces of the bottom end through your '20 bolt' oil pan. It's a 2-bolt block. Plus, it'll destroy that transmission.

[Radio Flyer]

Intake manifold and TB porting should do me for now. The intake ports, and plenum chamber were smoothed and ported. The tb/manifold opening wasn't the smoothest thing ever to come out of Detroit. It didn't match the TB hardly at all, in addition to being smaller. I'm still trying to do this N/A and lightweight if I can get away with it. That's what made the low power level less of a disadvantage. I still have the balls to do this anyway. [img]graemlins/banana.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img]

Okay, so it lacks several other parts of a true turbo block, including probably the crank, balance shaft, and rods themselves in the long block. So, what are you left with? It's the EFI setup that makes any real power even remotely possible. 250h/p seems doable out of almost 4 litres...even if it is 8:1 compression and a 5k rpm redline. The heads definitely don't hurt the cause. Sorry for sounding like a prick. I know there's differences, I just have to find them (first 3.8 I've owned.) Knowing they use 2 bolt and 4 bolt mains b/n different shortblocks helps. Having been around GM v8's, that makes more sense. I've been dealing with Subarus for the last 4 years, gimme a break [img]graemlins/stickpoke.gif[/img] ...

[Vyse]

You have 150 horsepower and 200 ft.lbs or torque.
www.lesabret.com
Best place on the web to find out and talk about the FWD Buick 3.8/3800 Series I.
A guy named LoType on there has done extensive work to his '87 LeSabre T Type including a custom grind cam from Comp Cams. It has yet to see a dyno, but he has done software calculations and is claiming 250 hp 280(?) ft.lbs. Sorry, but I'm a Buick guy first and I'll defend the Tri Shield whenever I have to. :cool: