350+ hp

[97rs4life]

you could take the top end from a grand am 3400 but you would also need the pistons too or your compression will be crazy high. There was someone awhile back that did a research between the 3.4 heads and the 3400 alum. heads. The alum 3400 heads flowed as much as the 3.4 iron heads fully ported. So the 3400 alum heads DEF. flow alot better than the 3.4 heads.

[Bill S]

Oh yes - you would indeed need the matching pistons - or the compression ratio goes way up - I have never calculated it but believe it is 12:1+

Best way to do such a swap would be to buy a complete sidewinder engine and use the bits you needed in your block.

[Jonathan S]

Ok I'm green behind the ears and I'm in now way too proud to admit it! I got my chilton's and a 8 hours behind the wrench but I'm very excited about working on my maro and I have no pipe dreams, no pun intended ;) about making this the fastest ***** on the road that no car can touch but I'd like to hit 300 horse if possible with less than a 7 grand investment. I have a few questions...

-Does the 3400 parts have to come from the Grand Am Gt?

-Sidewinder engine??

-Tiago's turbo a good route to take? I have a lot of time to decide on this tho, I'd rather do the pistons, heads and the plenum wayyyy before the turbo. I've invested 10 grand in my audio studio, I'm a musician first, and I'll just wait for those returns to buy me my z06 but until then this maro is my baby!

- Thanks again guys for the info. I really appreciate the help for a starter enthusiast like myself.

[Bill S]

Originally posted by Jonathan S:


-Does the 3400 parts have to come from the Grand Am Gt?

-Sidewinder engine??

-Tiago's turbo a good route to take?

A sidewinder motor is any front engined car or minivan. I do not know of any specific problems with converting an F body to using alloy heads - clearance issues with manifolds etc., as I do not own an F body. The poor engine shoved half under the windshield looks a right pain to work on! I expect that there are people out there that have gone that route, if nmot on this board then on others.

While I expect that you could stick the heads and manifolds in, you can forget about using the double overhead cam version - almost sure there isn't room.

And as far as tuning is concerned, you have to decide right up front whether you will be building a normal unduction or pressure fed engine. If the latter, you would need to select suitable pistons, compression ratio and cam to suit that sort of induction - which is why we took the lad to task earlier in this thread for talking about building a conventional engine with high compression and then blowing it, not re4alising he'd have to replace half of what he'd already done.

There are superchargers and turbo kits available for your car. I'd seriously look at a bolt on one of either sort. You may think the $3K price is a lot, BUT being able to simply bolt it together is worth quite a bit. It will kick you up from 160 BHP to c. 240 with no internal changes to the engine. If you do rebuild the engine you can get into the low 300 BHP range quite easily.

You might want to talk to Kevin at http://www.design1systems.com/ - his kits are based on Fieros but reading his site will give you some ideas.

[Jonathan S]

how well will the engine hold up with no internal changes?
and if i get the alum heads and the better flowing intake manifold it would boost me up to 300s?
Other than the heads, driveshaft and wheels where can I reduce some weight off the camaro?

[Bill S]

The engines are bullet-proof in terms of bottom end, at least at the power levels we are talking about. The rods and crank won't need any attention.

The stock cast pistons are fine for mild turbo - 8 psi or similar. If you are going to do a full engine build for 10 psi or more I would certainly replace the pistons with some forged items - Ross Racing made me some very nice custom pistons for my turbo engine.

You need to decide how much boost you will be using when you spec the pistons and compression ratio. If you are happy with 10-12 psi, I'd go for 8.5:1. If you want to use 15 psi+, you'll want to look at something in the region of 7.5 and you will also need to get into an intercooler. These are pretty hard to find a spot for in a Fiero (unless you don't mind losing the trunk) and it is probably a chore to locate them in a Camaro as well.

As for losing weight, I'm sure the other gus here that DO own F bodies can make suggestions. I was a bit surprised on another board that no one seemed interested when I was researching which more modern compact high torque starter would fit the 3.4 - saving a few pounds didn't seem that important to them.

I guess that your Camaro/Firebird weighs in at around 3300 pounds dry, which is 600 more than my Fiero HERE , 300 more than my old Lamborghini HERE , about 100 more than an old British car I have with a big block Chrysler sixpack in it HERE , and 1300 more than the MG that my 3.4 engine is going into HERE

If you want good performance, there is nothing like losing weight - and it is often cheaper than gaining power.

[97rs4life]

Originally posted by Jonathan S:
how well will the engine hold up with no internal changes?
and if i get the alum heads and the better flowing intake manifold it would boost me up to 300s?
Other than the heads, driveshaft and wheels where can I reduce some weight off the camaro?

With the swap to the 3400 alum heads/intakes/pistons you should be at 180-200 flywheel ponies I think it was, I can't remember exactly what the guy who did the swap said he was at but I think it was close to that. As for weight reduction, there is a lot you can do. Do a search for 12secondv6 weight reduction list. There is one lingering somewhere, I think maybe in the drag racing section.

[Bill S]

Jonathan - take a look at http://westcoastfiero.com/turbo_systems/turbo.html to give you some idea of what turbos are about.

[lambo101]

Originally posted by 97rs4life:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Jonathan S:
how well will the engine hold up with no internal changes?
and if i get the alum heads and the better flowing intake manifold it would boost me up to 300s?
Other than the heads, driveshaft and wheels where can I reduce some weight off the camaro?

With the swap to the 3400 alum heads/intakes/pistons you should be at 180-200 flywheel ponies I think it was, I can't remember exactly what the guy who did the swap said he was at but I think it was close to that. As for weight reduction, there is a lot you can do. Do a search for 12secondv6 weight reduction list. There is one lingering somewhere, I think maybe in the drag racing section. </font>[/QUOTE]how much hp gain should be expected from a 3500 swap?

[Bill S]

Originally posted by lambo101:
how much hp gain should be expected from a 3500 swap?

The 3500 puts out 201 BHP, I believe. It is easy to get around 235 without much trouble.

The new 3.9 offers even more.

[lambo101]

i just found this:

http://www.buick.com/terraza/context...e/353500v6.jsp

are the 3500 heads direct bolt on for the 3.4?

[Bill S]

I believe the stud pattern is the same, but you'd need to change a lot of stuff - including all pistons, manifolds, wiring, PCM.........

[lambo101]

Originally posted by Bill S:
I believe the stud pattern is the same, but you'd need to change a lot of stuff - including all pistons, manifolds, wiring, PCM.........

is a 3900 swap possible?

[Bill S]

Anything is possible, given enough money.

[lambo101]

Originally posted by Bill S:
Anything is possible, given enough money.

after reading Russel's write up on the 3.4 on fbodyv6.com, i feel even more inspired to bring out the untapped potential of my engine. i mean, apparently the top end is the 3.4's weak point. ok, lets "pretend"...that money wasn't an issue. what is the best top end swap possible for the 3.4?