AutoTap Help !NEW UPDATE!

[Eds02v6]

I got AutoTap enhanced for windows last week, and have been playing around with it to learn how to use it. The previous discussions on this board really helped me out a lot!! I've been trying to get some baseline data so I know where I am when I hook up my MAFT+. So far the logged data I have taken is just around town (When I can go WOT), but I do plan on going to the track tonight. I am measuring O2's (B1S1, and B2S1), KR, RPM, and Timing Advance. I think I am doing something wrong though, because my O2's are not the same (see below). Also I am running 89 octane right now, and am seeing 1-2.5 deg KR sometimes. Will 93 help with KR?

O2's @ WOT (Timing is ~18 deg)
B1S1.....B2S1
0.88.....1.01

Thanks for any insight or help you can give me!

Ed

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Eds02v6 ]

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: Eds02v6 ]</p>

[Magnus]

Can you post a little bit of your log?

higher octane will help reduce KR. yes.

How does the car run? Your o2's are off by a TON. Do you throw any codes, how's it idle.. perhaps you have a bad plug/wire. If your readings are right..

Even with those high readings the PCM should compensate to bring them back down.

[Eds02v6]

Hey Magnus, I was hoping you'd reply! [img]smile.gif[/img]
The car idles and runs excellent. So no problem there. On a quick side note, I am starting to think that I am having a problem with AutoTap when I export a log file. The only reason I think that is that when logging in AutoTap my o2's are displayed in mV's (on screen), but in the log file they are mV x 10. It's weird...
Here's some of the Data... It is on the express way, I was crusing about 65mph in 5th, then dropped it to fourth and held it WOT. I've gotten the same results a few times now (repeatably).

B1 S1 B2 S1 (RPM) Ign. KR
8.6 10 3111 14.5 0.6
8.7 10 3148 18 1.2
8.7 9.9 3186 17.5 1.1
8.8 10 3194 17.5 0.9
8.8 10.2 3218 17.5 0.7
8.8 10.1 3233 17.5 0.5
8.8 10.2 3257 18 0.4
8.8 10.2 3274 18 0.3
8.8 10.1 3290 18 0.1
8.8 10.1 3315 18 0
8.8 10.1 3348 18.5 0
8.8 10.2 3366 18.5 0
8.8 10.1 3383 18 0
8.8 10.2 3392 18.5 0
8.7 10.2 3427 18.5 0
8.8 10.1 3427 18.5 0
8.8 10.1 3454 18.5 0
8.8 10.2 3472 18.5 0
8.7 10.3 3491 18.5 0.4
8.7 10.2 3519 17.5 0.3
8.8 10.2 3528 18 2.7
8.8 10.1 3547 15.5 2.6
8.7 10.1 3576 15.5 2.5
8.8 10.3 3586 15.5 2.3
8.8 10.2 3615 15.5 2.1
8.7 10.2 3635 16 1.9
8.8 10.2 3645 16 1.8
8.7 10.2 3666 16 1.6
8.8 10.2 3676 16 1.4
8.8 10.2 3696 16.5 1.3
8.8 10.2 3728 16.5 1.1
8.7 10.2 3749 16.5 1
8.7 10.1 3760 16.5 0.8
8.8 10.1 3760 17 0.6
8.7 10.2 3803 17 0.4
8.8 10.1 3826 17 0.3
8.5 10.2 3837 17.5 0.1

[Magnus]

Ok.. not good.. your o2's are SO OFF.. So lets see why...

Log this for me:
RPM
MPH
TPS
O2 B1S1
O2 B2S1
Long Term Fuel Trim B1
Long Term Fuel Trim B2
Maf Frequency
MAP
Injector Pulse With Cyl 1

As of right now.. I'm thinking one of the following is bad:
O2 Sensor
Plug wire
Spark Plug
Injector

[Eds02v6]

Ok. I'll log those tonight after work, and post what happens. Thanks Magnus!

[Eds02v6]

Ok- I went to the track last night, and logged a couple runs with the parameters you asked for. My Et's were aweful when I was logging...I kept messing up at the light, and kept getting in the low 16's. I got a little frustrated, and turned my laptop off to concentrate on racing, and I got a new best of 15.413sec @ 90mph! [img]smile.gif[/img] Anyway...Here is one of the 1/4 mile logs that I took for you to look at. Unfortunately the Injector pulse for cyc1 didn't get logged. I could have sworn that I set it up to log that also, but as I am looking at the data this morning it's not there.

(RPM)_(MPH)__(TPS)__(O2B1S1)_(O2B2S1)__(LTFT B1)__(LTFT B2)__(MAF Freq)__(MAP)
2824____0_____32.9_____9.2_____7.4______16.4______ _17.2_______7037.1_____28.9
4012____1_____100______9.3____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______7637.2_____28.6
3635____11____100______9.4____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______7536.1_____28.9
3348____20____100______9.5____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______7477.1_____29.2
3218____19____100______9.5____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______7103_______29.2
2653____14___19.2______9.4____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______7433.1_____28.9
3454____21____100______9.4____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______7783.2_____28.6
3837____24____100______9.5____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______8152.3_____28.9
4164____26____100______9.4____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8371.6_____28.6
4522____28____100______9.4____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8608.4_____28.9
4803____30____100______9.4____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8674.8_____29.2
5181____32____100______9.5____10.8______10.2______-38.3_______6975.1_____23.3
3803____37____100______9.3____10.8______10.2______-_9.4_______7676.3_____29.2
3686____39____100______9.5____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______7866.2_____28.6
3792____40____100______9.3____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8000.5_____29.5
3928____42____100______9.3____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8088.4_____29.5
4062____43____100______9.4____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8186.5_____29.2
4204____45____100______9.4____10.8______10.2______ __9.4_______8274.4_____28.6
4358____47____100______9.4____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______8462.9_____28.6
4491____48____100______9.4____10.9______10.2______ __9.4_______8472.7_____28.9
4617____49____100______9.3____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______8566.4_____29.2
4751____51____100______9.4____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______8630.9_____28.9
4892____52____100______9.2____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______8643.1_____29.2
5023____53____100______9.3____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8694.8_____28.9
5181____55____100______9.1____10.7______10.2______ __9.4_______8674.8_____28.9
5306____57____100______9.2____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8764.2_____28.9
5416____58____100______9.4____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8744.1_____29.2
5553____59____100______9.4____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8811.5_____29.2
5672____60____100______9.2____10.6______14.1______ _12.5_______7859.4_____13.3
5747____59____18______-0.4____-0.4______14.1_______12.5_______8184.6_____29.2
3686____62____100______9.2____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______7855_______29.2
3826____63____100______9.2____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______7946.8_____28.9
3871____64____100______9______10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______7982.4_____28.6
3952____65____100______9.2____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8055.2_____29.2
3988____65____100______9.1____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8102.5_____28.9
4049____67____100______9.1____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8161.1_____29.2
4100____68____100______9______10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8196.3_____29.2
4164____69____100______9______10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8267.6_____28.9
4218____70____100______9______10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8335_______28.9
4287____71____100______9.2____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8335_______28.9
4358____71____100______9.2____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8417_______29.2
4401____73____100______9.2____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8438_______28.9
4461____74____100______9.1____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8418.5_____28.9
4507____75____100______9.2____10.6______10.2______ __9.4_______8537.1_____28.6
4569____75____100______9______10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8513.2_____28.9
4617____76____100______9______10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8568.8_____28.6
4667____77____100______9.2____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8611.3_____28.9
4717____78____100______9.1____10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8597.2_____28.9
4768____79____100______8.9____10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8615.2_____28.9
4821____80____100______9______10.5______10.2______ __9.4_______8697.8_____29.2
4856____81____100______9______10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8706.1_____28.9
4929____81____100______8.9____10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8659.7_____29.2
4947____82____100______9.1____10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8668.9_____29.2
5042____83____100______9______10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8744.6_____29.2
5081____84____100______9.2____10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8760.3_____28.6
5121____85____100______9.1____10.3______10.2______ __9.4_______8800.8_____29.2
5161____85____100______9.1____10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8798.3_____28.3
5181____86____100______9______10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8729.5_____28.9
5264____87____100______9.2____10.3______10.2______ __9.4_______8820.3_____28.9
5328____88____100______9.1____10.3______10.2______ __9.4_______8762.2_____29.2
5350____88____100______8.9____10.3______10.2______ __9.4_______8863.8_____28.9
5393____89____100______9______10.3______10.2______ __9.4_______8790_______29.2
5393____89____100______9.1____10.1______10.2______ __9.4_______8829.6_____29.5
5461____90____100______9.2____10.4______10.2______ __9.4_______8850.6_____29.2
5506____91____100______9______10.4______10.2______ _12.5_______5805.7______9.4


Does this help, or should I go take some more reading?
Thanks,
Ed

[Magnus]

Woops.. don't monitor MAF Frequency, monitor MAF Flow Rate.. should be in lb/min.. sorry bout that.

Your car is running SUPER rich.

Repla the MAF Frequency with the MAF Flow Rate, remove MAP and do some more logging.. but do a full trip log.. so you get some cruise AND wot in the same log.. then e-mail it to me.

Your LT's are abnormally high, which would make you think the PCM is compensatin for a lean condition by richening up the fuel mixture, however your fuel mixture is already so high now... your LT's should drop down.

How is your intake setup. Perhaps your flow is turbulent or favors the bottom half of the TB and avoids the MAF sensor?

[Eds02v6]

Ok- I'll try take some more readings driving around today. As for the intake...The only thing I have done is put on the Wisper Lid, and cut out the bottom of the air box.

[Magnus]

Ok, I looked at your logs.. Very unsettling.

One side is so obviousely richer than the other.

Monitor TPS, O2 B1S1, B2S1 and B1S3 (the one in front of cat)... B1S3 should be in the middle of B1S1 and B2S1. If its not, then perhaps you have a bad o2..

Things I would try..

Make sure you don't have exhaust leaks first.

Swap O2 sensors from each primary.. see if your rich condition switches to the other side.

If it doesn't, then swap the injectors from side to side.. see how that does.

[Eds02v6]

Ok I took some more readings last night, and just e-mailed them to you. There was no B1S3 in AutoTap. There was B1S2 so I logged that (I hope that was the right one). I looked under the car, and there is no O2 before the Cat, only one right after. I'm assuming that is B1S2? I have not had a chance to switch the O2's yet but hopefully I will tonight. If the log file is correct, then I think I might have a bad O2 because B1S2 matched B1S1, and B2S1 was way off again.... :(

[Magnus]

Well if you have a cat on your B1S2 readings will differ than the S1 readings.. thats why I wanted B1S3 (in front of the cat).. but anyway...

see how swithcing O2's does.

[Eds02v6]

Well I went to go switch the o2's last night, and ran into a couple unexpected problems...First the o2 sensor after the cat had a male end connector, and the ones at the exhaust manafolds have female ends. So I can't switch them. The next is I couldn't get the o2's in the manafold out. I ended up modifying one of my angled box wrenches to try and make it fit, but the exhaust connector (where the manafold meets the y-pipe) is in the way. I probably have to remove that to get to the o2's, and will try again this weekend (I didn't have the time last night).

Ohhhh...and just an intersting tid bit of info...while I was under there I looked and saw that I have a 1-piece drive shaft not a 2-piece. I wonder if all the 02' camaro's do too, or just the Y87's.

[Eds02v6]

Well...I finally got a chance to switch my O2 sensors last night. I switched B1S1 and B2S1, and then went to AutoTap some more. The numbers did NOT change.
at WOT;
B1S1 ~ 0.95v
B2S1 ~ 1.10v

I went back and looked at some old AutoTap logs, and noticed that at WOT B2S1 is consistantly 0.15v higher than B1S1. I don't know if that means anything though. I guess the next thing to try is to switch injectors. I also talked to the dealer last week, and they said that unless I'm getting an SES code that I'm S.O.L.

[Bird_Of_Prey]

I'm pretty sure that the 98+ cars have the steel single piece driveshaft.