VS Cam??

[Redsix]

On that note Mr. Magnus:

What do you consider more ideal? I like mods but slapping in a cam not having to worry about it sounds pretty ideal to me ;)

[Magnus]

oh I completely agree with you..

However, the "slapping in a cam only" part without valve springs and pushrods is determined by lobe profiles, more specifically lobe lift and ramp rates..

The ramps on that cam are very fast.. That fast ramps will put more stress on pushrods and springs. While the springs won't bind due to the low lift, there is still more wear from the rate they open.

I'll talk with Zoomer about it.. see if we can clear some issues up with this. I am confused a little by what he means as well.

- Keith

[Ironman24]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Redsix:
On that note Mr. Magnus:

What do you consider more ideal? I like mods but slapping in a cam not having to worry about it sounds pretty ideal to me ;) <hr></blockquote>

If you want to "slap" in a cam then why not go with the SSM regrind cam? I'm running one with stock valvetrain and have had great results both NA (25rwhp gain) and also on the nitrous. Recently adding the blower the car pulls like a MOFO. I think the 210/214 .450 113 is a great multi-purpose cam and has worked great with everything I've thrown at it.

Downside is it's not totally streetable, I'm not fond of it for a daily driver car. For example I can't run my AC in stop and go traffic or the car will stall out on me. And until the car is warm in closed loop you just can't drive it without it stalling out.

Also, I think those advertised gains are way too high for that cam.

[Magnus]

I'm all for a COMP grind over a regrind. [img]smile.gif[/img]

When I compared my cams side by side, my lobes were FATTY! LOL

I talked with Zoomer, he seems VERY confident that the VS cam will work ok with stock springs and pushrods.. and you know what.. I believe him..

The ramps are fast however the lift is relatively low..

I would be worried about wear on the springs with high mileage on this cam due to the faster ramps.. however Zoomer is very confident in this cam.. and I believe he's done his research as well.

I still don't think the VS is the greatest NA cam though. It favors the exhaust a great deal.

[Silver3800V6FBodyKY]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:

I talked with Zoomer, he seems VERY confident that the VS cam will work ok with stock springs and pushrods.. and you know what.. I believe him..

<hr></blockquote>


I've believed him the whole time too. I think Tom is more on the safe side when he says replace valve springs with lift is greater than .450". But about a month ago when I was emailing Zoomer back and forth, I realized that he was right, and that we can use stock Valve Train with this cam. I'm going to use it because I will be running forced induction in the future.

[Redsix]

Very Cool [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Thanks alot guys. This will definitely help me out and I will see about maybe purchasing this cam. I'll keep the stock cam around for a while just in case. :D

[jonny985]

Well, I'm still confused on what you guys think is the best bet for a straight NA daily driver? a reground 210/214 .450 113? Zoomer's COMP 206/216 .050 115? or the COMP 206/212 .50 113(with new springs and pushrods)?

-Jon

[hou-tex-six]

just to clairfy even more, whats the likelihood of any of those 3 cams throwing a SES code? if the vs one doesent then i woudl think its pretty logical that the 206/212 wouldent either, but then again what do i know.


Cp

[Dominic]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jonny985:
Well, I'm still confused on what you guys think is the best bet for a straight NA daily driver? a reground 210/214 .450 113? Zoomer's COMP 206/216 .050 115? or the COMP 206/212 .50 113(with new springs and pushrods)?

-Jon<hr></blockquote>

I don't think the Zoomer 205/216 is going to give you the gains the Comp 206/212 will - and I would place money on that. The VS Cam doesn't need a new valvetrain, but if I went to replace my cam I would invest in a new valvetrain anyways. IMO the stock valvetrain was designed only for the stock cam, and you need something stronger for those steep fatty lobes.

I agree with Magnus also that indeed the compcams fresh ground cams are far better than the supersix RE-grind. The faster ramprates however do require a stronger valvetrain, I would never subject a stock valvetrain to the ramprates of an xtremegrind... 20,000 miles and you'll have issues doing something like that.

[Magnus]

a 206/212 112LS should work VERY well on a daily driver NA V6.


Just to clarify some more, You can get a COMP cam with the supersix package from Tom@Supersix.

[Only4U]

ok magnus, you've really done it now :D here come the questions i think most of us probably want to ask...if not, then they are definetely the questions i want to ask [img]tongue.gif[/img]

first of all, how much gains am i looking at getting with this new camshaft?
will i need new valves and pushrods?
mileage going to go down considerably?
this car is my daily driver and i don't want anything too extreme and would like the cam not to set an ses light and not cause my car to do anything unusual, such as rough idling or something?
how much would this setup cost (pushrods, valves, and camshaft)?
what makes this camshaft a better camshaft to get than the one Zoomer makes?

well ok, i think that covers about all the questions i've got [img]graemlins/dunce.gif[/img] thx magnus, or anyone else who answers the millions of questions :D

[Dominic]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Magnus:
[QB]a 206/212 112LS should work VERY well on a daily driver NA V6.
[QB]<hr></blockquote>

So you think the 112LS is necessary for that duration? I thought that the 115LS cam would be tamer than the 112 - am I correct?

[Magnus]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Only4U:
first of all, how much gains am i looking at getting with this new camshaft?
Very hard to say. I would only be guessing. Perhaps 30rwhp with just a cam.

will i need new valves and pushrods?
Valves no. Pushrods are recomended. You may need pushrods anyway due to gemoetry changes from the changes in base circle size.

mileage going to go down considerably?
2mpg maybe? Don't know for sure, it realy depends on how hard you drive the car. My driving style averages me 12mpg.

this car is my daily driver and i don't want anything too extreme and would like the cam not to set an ses light and not cause my car to do anything unusual, such as rough idling or something?
206/212 112LS should be very nice for your type of setup. It MIGHT (very slim chance) set an ses light though due to the 112LS. The PCM might pick it up as misfires. My 212/212 112 sets SES. The idle will be a little rough but nothing that wild.

how much would this setup cost (pushrods, valves, and camshaft)?
Cam is about $300, valves you don't need, pushrods about $100 from summit, springs if you choose so $175 from supersix. Those prices are off the top of my head.

what makes this camshaft a better camshaft to get than the one Zoomer makes?
Zoomer doesn't make it, COMP does. It all depends on what YOU want.<hr></blockquote>

Dominic, first.. You are doing one hell of a job on this UBB. I see you replying with great tech replies all over the place. Great job man! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Now to answer your question, yes the 115 will be tamer than the 112 however the 112 should make more power, more useable power. The 115 may have a bigger peak however it will be higher in the RPM range, possible past our rev limiter even. I bet a 110LS would be pretty killer NA too. It'd lope like half the cylinders were shot too! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[jonny985]

What do you guys think of the Comp Valve Springs/retainers and Chromoly pushrods from the Grandprix store as opposed to the Springs from Tom at SSM and the pushrods from Summit.

The Springs from Tom seem to require more machining while the Comp springs and retainers seem to be a direct replacement.

Would you mind clearing me up on this?

Would you mind giving me the P/N for the pushrods at Summit so I can check them out?

Thanks,
Jon

[Arctc Wolf]

The reason the VS grind has more exhaust duration is because it's made for a L67. since it has a blower, they think you don't need as much intake as exhaust sicne the blower is cramming mre air in there anyways, so a small or stock intake lobe is fine and a big exhaust lobe will get all the exhaust out better. the tighter lobe separation will get you more top-end power(better high rpm scavenging) than low to mid range power. more lobe separation yeilds a wider powerband as well as lower torque and hp peaks. The vs cam would work well for nitrous applications I'd think, since nitrous needs more exhaust opening than intake since it's much denser going in than coming out. I'd have comp cams custom grind a cam for you. Basically, longer duration, slightly less lobe separation, and slightly more lift would work well for N/A L36 engines. One way to see if you could make more power w/ a differnet cam would be to advance the cam timing a couple degrees. if you see more power, you need a bigger cam, if you retard cam timing and see more power, you might wanna get a smaller cam. just a little usefull info.