Thrasher vs Supersix by Magnus

[Magnus]

This is a little somthing I wrote about a month ago. I copied and pasted it from that post and now will revise it with what new knoledge I have learned...

Lets look at costs:

Supersix:
Heads: $489
3-angle valve job and assembly: $219
Total: $708

Trahser:
Heads: $511
3-angle valve job and assembly: $358
Total: $869

Now with Trasher, you can get an oversized exhaust valve and stiffer springs to run more lift. To run just the oversized exhaust valve (you need the titanium springs) it will cost you an additional: $505.30

Or you can just buy the Thrasher springs and ship them off to Supersix like I did. And, if you want bigger valves with your Supersix heads, I am sure Tom@Supersix will be willing to work with you. He will probably give you a better price than Thrasher as well.

But for a NA motor, bigger valves won't do you anything at all.

The cost of just the springs/locks/retainers from Thrasher (which you can use with supersix heads like I am) is: $363.24

Now lets compare the heads both using stock valve sizes:

First, Strangely.. both Supersix and Trahser have different stock flow results. So we are going to compare both their stock results to their ported results. This could be because of the fact that Thrasher tested GTP heads.

Now, GTP heads are different than L36 heads, but before they were the same thing. GTP have the injectors mounted in the heads but our heads don't have the boss drilled out. This could be the reason for the different stock flow #'s.

I have been looking at port volumes all morning and the numbers just are NOT matching up. Super six shows an increase in port volume while thrasher shows a decrease.. So lets just compare the flows.

Supersix:
Lift StockInt StockExh PortInt PortExh
0.05 34.60 28.90 36.20 30.00
0.10 62.40 54.70 64.40 55.30
0.15 91.10 86.60 92.80 85.80
0.20 116.3 116.9 123.9 115.6
0.25 142.7 136.5 152.3 145.0
0.30 164.1 149.6 170.5 160.4
0.35 179.0 155.2 188.0 180.0
0.40 189.6 158.1 202.3 186.0
0.45 196.9 161.4 214.3 188.8
0.50 199.6 163.0 220.1 193.0
0.55 197.8 164.0 226.2 194.4

Trahser
Lift StockInt StockExh PortInt PortExh
0.20 111.8 102.5 124.7 111.0
0.30 154.6 133.9 167.5 146.5
0.40 176.0 144.8 185.0 168.8
0.45 182.5 147.1 208.6 173.8
0.50 186.5 146.6 211.2 182.1

Flows at .50 lift
StockInt StockExh PortInt PortExh
Supersix: 199.6 163.0 220.1 193.0
Trahser : 186.5 146.6 211.2 182.1

Gains at .50 lift
Intake Exhaust
Supersix: 20.5cfm 10.3% 30.0cfm 18.4%
Trasher : 24.7cfm 13.2% 35.5cfm 24.2%

Now, what does this say? Which set of heads is better? I dunno, its hard to tell because the stock flow rates from each company are different. Trasher gains more from their baseline results, but Supersix has more flow according to their tests..

I have been talking with both companies for months now. Tom@Supersix has returned every single one of my e-mails. He is going out of his way to help me and the GM 3.8 community. Thrasher never responded to my e-mails before. Then they went under new management and I did recieve some replies, but not much. They didn't help me very much at all. It seems Thrashers only concern is to sell more products. Not to help the community.

I am VERY confident in Tom's work. I know he will put the extra time into my set of heads to make sure they flow well. I know that by going with Supersix I will recieve a good set of heads.

Thrasher advertises ridiculous gains from their heads alone.. Hmm.. Possibly because they want to sell their heads. What better way to sell a product then to say you'll gan 40hp from it. Well, that might be possible on a GTP with a blower on top of the motor, but don't count on that for a NA motor. Also, I have been talking with people who have bought heads from thrasher. I know several GTP owners who have thrasher heads. I also know several GTP owners who know all about the GTP community and what Thrasher does for them. You know what I got as a response when I asked them about thrasher heads....

"Its nothing more than what you could do out of your own garage."

Thrasher may advertise awesome gains.. And maybe they did achieve these crazy gains. But if they don't send you a set of heads that matches the specs of the dyno tested pair, whats the point. Pay several hundred more than what Supersix offers for a set of heads that don't flow at all.


Now a little about cams.

Supersix will custom grind your cam any way you like it. Tom will work with you in finding a grind that works for you and is compatable with your setup.

I e-mailed Thrasher this about their custom cams:
"What are the cam specs?"
They replied... "Proprietary."
How does that answer my question???? It doesn't. They won't release to you cam specs and to go with a custom cam from them, your going to have to pay huge setup charges just for your 1 cam. Thats BS if you ask me. Supersix doesn't charge ridiculous setup charges.

One thing Thrahser does have access is to true cam cores. But we don't really need our cams ground from a true cam core. Unless you are going with ridiculous lift and duration, you don't need one.

Supersix has stock cam cores from which to regrind the specs you need, the stock grind has enough meat to get the rather mild specs you're looking for. Regrinds don't hurt roller cams either.

Bottom line by me is this...
Go with Thrasher and cross your fingers and hope for a good set of heads. And also plan on shelling out quite a lot more $$$. Go with Supersix and have peace of mind that you WILL get a good set of heads and you will also get good customer service.. and most of all, he won't rip you off.

So with info like THIS.. and not.. oh this company has been doing it for so long and that company has just sarted, etc. etc... use facts and #'s.

NOTE:
Please, do not kill my topic. If you have nothing technical to add to this, please do not reply. If you have questions about either company, please make a new topic. If you feel you can add to the comparison, than please please Reply to this topic.

Thank you.

[Deuce Bigs]

lemme also add this. i was originally supposed to be the test car for the supersix package but had lost my job just before i could do it. previous to that however Tom at supersix and I had numerous emails daily back and forth about ideas. Tom cares about his customers and is a good and knowledgible guy to deal with. when i sent them my cores and then lost my job after he had done a little work he helped me find someone to continue the job instead of just saying sorry you defaulted on them so it's mine now. i have also tried to email thrasher many times and have never gotten a reply.

[Ironman24]

I'd like to add that I called Tom about sending him my heads. I left a message and he made it a point to call me back, TWICE, to make sure he got in touch with me. He spent a lot time with me on the phone answering all of my questions. I know for sure I will be sending my spare set of heads to Supersix. In a very competitive market it's hard to find good sales and tech support these days, and that is still very important to me, especially when I'm spending that much $$$.

Michael
broke 98 3.8 getting fixed

[99bird3.8]

I've got a question.
Do you have to get your cam regrinded or will the stock one work well with the heads? Should the intakes be ported at the same time to get the most out of it? Thanks for your help.

[Magnus]

You do not have to get your cam reground. You can use the stock cam. You will get better HP gains though if you swap the cam.

Also, you do not have to change the intakes either. THey just all add up to give you the best HP gains and make the car the most efficient.

Please, if you have more questions about these companies, please make a new post. If you have something to add to the comparison, please reply to this post.

Thank you.

- Keith

[bluecmaro96]

so wait a minute if the heads are 708.00 how does it come out to 1500.00 for the package? is the cam and intake 800.00? sounds kinda pricey

[Magnus]

bluecmaro96, http://www.supersixmotorsports.com and click the catalog.
Upper Intake Manifold: $199
Lower Intake Manifold: $299
Cam: $289

It's not price at all.

Now please, if you have questions.. please make a new topic.

Lets keep this topic constructive. Lets compare the two companies. Maybe I am missing part of the picture so I would like to hear how other people compare the two companies as well.

Thank you.

[Dominic]

The only thing I can think of I mentioned in the other post, but without comparable reference values the data comparison is invalid.

The only thing I have read about heads is that too big is just as bad as too tiny, port size wise... Also, making the intake plemum baby-butt smooth might not be a good idea, some turbulence does help in the combustion process.

Oversized valving is not worth it, and in fact can make you lose horsepower in an N/A condition, so I don't recommend it. Valve duration and opening can help though, so a cam + possibly 1.7:1 rocker arms (if they'll fit) would be trully beneficial.

Ricecooker (or anyone whose torn down a 3800) - do you think longer 1.7:1 rocker's would fit?

Thrasher has pretty much proven to me with their flow numbers that their heads are good quality. If ricecooker's car is working fine with the new timing chain and cam, then I'll say thats a good product too. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thats really all I have to add, see my other post for what I had to say earlier.

[Magnus]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TheCardinal:
Thrasher has pretty much proven to me with their flow numbers that their heads are good quality.<hr></blockquote>

If I start productin with Heads by Magnus and advertise even better flow numbers than Thrasher, would my heads be superior? Just because I advertise better #'s? What if I ship you off heads that have terrible flow numbers?

A local GTP here runs 12's. He has spent lots of money with Thrasher. He has Thrasher heads. Does he like them? Nope. Would he buy them again, probably not.

Why? Just because Thrasher ADVERTISES those #'s doesn't mean they will send you a set of heads that lives up to their advertised claims.

Thrasher also does not have any L36 cores in stock. Supersix does.

[RiceCooker]

Mike and Kieth,
I can't agree with you guys more. Tom is an excellent person to work with and that speaks volumes in the automotive performance world were most people are just out to make a buc by claiming one thing and not delivering a lot of the time. I have an e-mail folder full of corespondence between him and me when working on the project. He and my mechanic spoke a few times by phone and so did I.
I too agree that the difference in base line between the two companies is the difference between L67 and L36 heads. Also, bigger isn't always better (especially for our n/a sixers), and Tom realizes that. That's why he doesn't recommend the oversized valves and he doesn't "over port". The cam is designed specifically for your needs and the flow of the L36 heads, therefore the port and polish is taken full advantage of.
On a personal note, I'm glad to see many more people taking active interest in the SuperSix package. For a while, it seemed like on of those things where everyone wanted one, but didn't want to fork over the money

[dstrbd1]

a better comparison for flow test is the rating at mid lift, ~.3. this is because the valves spend much more time there than at max lift (comes from the new chp mag w/ the blonde on the cover). so goin from that, super six shows 6.4 or 3.9% gain on the intake and 10.8 or 7.3% on the exhaust. thrasher shows 12.9 or 8.35% intake and 12.6 or 9.4% exhaust. course it's a bad comparison since they likely are different heads. in this situation, and prolly any, i think the customer service would win me over more than the advertised gains.