Dropping in a 454 Big Block-----Possibilities???? (NEW!Check out Link to ZL1 Pics!!!)

[scottblack]

I still don't see why anyone would want to spend more money and jack up their new car when you can easily make MUCH more power from an LS1 or LS6 if you really wanted to go nuts. But you can buy an LS1, send it off to MTI or Speed Demon or Global West and have 500RWHP NA from their 422 or 427 motors. Makes absolutely no sense to me. I guess that increases the "cool" factor or something.

Scott

[Riles]

Why do import owners pour so much money into their cars? Why do we spend money to make our cars faster? These are all questions that can only be answered by the person doing.

If you've ever spent a dollar on performance in your v6, then you are guilty of what "you just dont get". Jeez guys, its ok to offer opinions on why it might be difficult or possibly even not work, but there is no need to say "i dont understand why somebody would do that", and you shouldnt ever critcize anybody for having a good imagination.

I thought we were a big happy family here.

[black34v6]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CHRISB:
Well thanks for the encouragement guys :rolleyes: . I know that you would be so jealous if I actually did such a swap ;) . I had the 3rd gen idea though. I could get one for cheap and they have alot of cowl space and clearance [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] . I don't care for the looks however. Thanks for the advice. I'll probably have to stick with a small block for now, since you guys say so :rolleyes: [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rofl.gif[/img] . I never get discouraged :D .<hr></blockquote>

LOL. at least you have a sense o humor bout all of it.

anyway. I've seen a Big Block done. got photos and everything. only difference = it was done by John Moss, GM's "toy" builder.

he stuffed a 578ci or so BBC into a 4th gen, with the 1993-1997 fenders on it, and just used one of the BBC hoods (the ZL-1 style hoods, kind of looks like the SS hood).

here is the only point im gonna contend to ya:
in order to make the BBC fit into the engine bay, John Moss/team had to notch the windshield. you heard me right. http://www.caranddriver.com =&gt; look up john moss on that site and you can find pics there somewhere. it'll give you an idea of what THEY had to do to get it to fit. good luck with your project.

I considered doing the BBC route for a while.. got off it cause i didnt want that big a headache, and decided to go the much easier route of just swapping the topend of my car...boy was i fooled.. anyway. have fun with your stuff.

-R

[CHRISB]

Thanks Riles :D . I am not trying to make everyone mad. I just want some input on how I should go about doing the swap if I ever got enough cash together. This idea is no definite project written in stone. I would still consider a stroker LS-1/LT-1 or a Turbo V-6. But I just have a thing [img]graemlins/love.gif[/img] for Big Blocks ;) . I think it would turn alot of heads at car shows with a big block under the hood. I would not go as far as major chassis cutting/welding/fabrication to make it fit. I just want simple. Maybe a Accel DFI or some similar system. Custom interior guages are in order to monitor the beast. A custom engine bracket is also necessary. Headers that fit, fabricated exhaust and beef 12bolt/9" rear are also needed. But the power steering, a/c, brakes and cooling are a *****. I could do without a/c, and if I only use the car for drag strip duty, the power steering could go. Yeah, it would be a tough project to tackle :D :D :D . But I like challenges ;) .

[pgriffith]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CHRISB:
Thanks Riles :D . I am not trying to make everyone mad. I just want some input on how I should go about doing the swap if I ever got enough cash together. This idea is no definite project written in stone. I would still consider a stroker LS-1/LT-1 or a Turbo V-6. But I just have a thing [img]graemlins/love.gif[/img] for Big Blocks ;) . I think it would turn alot of heads at car shows with a big block under the hood. I would not go as far as major chassis cutting/welding/fabrication to make it fit. I just want simple. Maybe a Accel DFI or some similar system. Custom interior guages are in order to monitor the beast. A custom engine bracket is also necessary. Headers that fit, fabricated exhaust and beef 12bolt/9" rear are also needed. But the power steering, a/c, brakes and cooling are a *****. I could do without a/c, and if I only use the car for drag strip duty, the power steering could go. Yeah, it would be a tough project to tackle :D :D :D . But I like challenges ;) .<hr></blockquote>

You want definate answers and we dont have them. I dont think anyone posting in this thread has ever done a Big Block 4th gen swap. So instead we give our opinions. Take them for what there worth. But if you have to ask questions about a Big Block swap you might not want to attempt this yourself. Check with a local speedshop and see if they are up for the job.

[scottblack]

It's so impractical is what I'm saying. Look at me, I have 7.4L badges and a big block emblem on my hood, my motor is a 20 year old design, I get 7mpg, and I still can't outrun a stock LT1. But I LOOK COOL!!!

Scott

[Magnus]

Depends on how you build the BB..

I'd like to do a BB in my car.. Hit low 9's NA without maxing out the engine like an LS1 or LT1.

[3.4 slow to go]

you could also get in touch w/Nachius. He's the one who found my engine. He might still have the guys e-mailaddress. Mycopy of the e-mails were lost due to a tragic incident involving my wife not knowing all my emails in the inbox were important :rolleyes: :mad: . He (person who did the 454 swap ) is in Elburn Il.

[dstrbd1]

it is definitely possible, but it takes some massaging of the engine bay and would be damn near impossible to work on without pulling the engine. i can't quite recall if there is any fabrication involved with the firewall or anything or if you can just pound it around a bit, but i have seen pics of a 502 (i think, maybe it was a 454) crammed into a maro. you can't see anything but engine. i figure if you wanna spend the time and money, go for it. i'll see if i can find a certain book i have and find out if it explains a bit more of what is involved.

[Backfire]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Russell:
I've seen a Big Block done. got photos and everything. only difference = it was done by John Moss, GM's "toy" builder.

he stuffed a 578ci or so BBC into a 4th gen, with the 1993-1997 fenders on it, and just used one of the BBC hoods (the ZL-1 style hoods, kind of looks like the SS hood).
-R<hr></blockquote>
I had the issue that had that car too. Pretty impressive custom job. If I remember correctly, it required work on both the firewall and fenders. The intake manifold was custom. It used a custom fuel injection system as well, but I don't recall if that was by choice or due to clearance issues. I don't remember what was used for ignition. Of course the exhaust was all custom. I think they wound up using a built 3 speed auto of some sort, and even that didn't last through the test session.

I do remember that traction was a real problem. They simply couldn't get the thing to hook up with all the torque. The times weren't all that impressive, even though the power numbers were close to 700hp and 650ft-lbs if I remember right.

[CHRISB]

If I have to tear apart the engine bay and do serious damage to the frame, then I would probably ditch the whole project. I was basically asking if the whole process of installing a Big Block into a 4th Gen F-Body was very difficult or costly. The problem is always money. If I was rich, I could pay someone to do the conversion and not worry about it. But I guess it's not very practical to do such a custom instillation. Thanks to everyone who had some input. Since I am still in college, 3rd year, I probably cannot afford such a project. Maybe a used LT-1 setup from Speed Automotive would be more in order [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] .

[turbosix]

yes. it is hard and costly.

the only thing you could do "CHEAPLY" would be to buy a turnkey LS1 engine and transmission and bolt it in.

this is probably the easiest thing you could do and even it would be difficult to do yourself.

hate to say this but.. your best bet is to sell the v6 car and buy an LT1 or LS1 car..

[MustangEater8251]

Actually I saw a 502 in a 4th gen SS. It was a 98+ SS, and the hood was stock, the CARB fit right up in the scoop, not sure what kind of air filter he ran but at the track he was running no filter.

He appeared to have a custom K-member, But it did fit in the car.

Personally in any car, even if engien room was not a problem I would still consider building upt a small block chevy. You can get usable "Big Block" power out of a small block chevy if you build it right, and it will be a little cheaper. Unless you want insane power would go with a small block.

But like said above I would go somewhere else, maybe www.camaroz28.com, since they deal mainly with 93-97 F-bodies, and serious speed, they might be a little more understanding of a cool swap like you suggest.


Hope I helped, btw, where in FL are ya?

[maxxresist]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scott Black:
It's so impractical is what I'm saying. Look at me, I have 7.4L badges and a big block emblem on my hood, my motor is a 20 year old design, I get 7mpg, and I still can't outrun a stock LT1. But I LOOK COOL!!!

Scott<hr></blockquote>

I agree, inefficiant OLDER then 20 year old design, 7 MPG if you lucky, built up for racing expect maybe 3 passes on a tank but.........................Slower then an LT1, wrong answer..
Slower then an LS1, I dought it...
So as not to offend the Chev purists I wont mention what car, but we run a nice mild LS7 454/turbo400 in a 2500 LBS car with an 1100 Dominator and can turn nice 8.40s being easy on it so the motor will last.

The swap is not that big of a deal if youre not worrying about smog or anything. Simplest way would probably be to do it just like a basic super pro bracket car, but dont gut the interior, run a A/C pump and P/S from a junkyard factory big block car then basically build you a new subframe for the front with new a-arms and a coil over set up and when your done hang the fenders on it for the look. Engine position isnt going to matter, youll have to build new crossmembers and get a new assend and driveshaft anyhow, youll have to get a raised hood.

I dont know alot about the Power train part of the computer or what it would affect getting rid of it and the original motor and trans.

Your definately talking lots of bucks ( Id say a super pro bracket car on average has close to 50k+ in it) and doing it this way your basically building a 1/4 mile car, not much handling or efficiancy for the street.

Talk to some HARDCORE 4wheelers near you for help, most of us fab EVERYTHING on the rigs.

[CHRISB]

If the fitment of a Big Block into a 4th gen FBody isn't perfect, or easy, then what's involved in a non LT-1 conventional small block? I'm talking carburated or DFI setup. That was my other choice. Maybe a 350 iron block, 3.75" stroker crank, 5.85" rods, forged pistons, race ported conventional heads, a TH-700R4 Art Carr tranny, and a fogger nitrous system [img]graemlins/burnout.gif[/img] . What needs to be fabricated for this???

A stock Z-28 crossmember should work. A cowl hood to clear the carb is probable. Be-Cool radiator should cool the rat nicely, eh? GM makes a nice little kit, the Ram-Jet 350. It carries fuel injection, 350hp, 400ft/lbs torque. Too many damn choices . What ever I decide, I want to be different, a real head turning, fuel burning, fire breathing beast.

I know this a V-6 board, but maybe you guys should give me a reason(or ideas) why I should keep my V-6 and try for 3.4 perfection ;) .

[ November 12, 2002: Message edited by: CHRISB ]</p>