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**jonny985** · 11-18-2002, 08:22 AM

I would pay about $300 for a cam install if all the parts were supplied to the mechanic.

The lift and the speed of the ramps determine whether new springs and pushrods are needed. Valves are not needed, the stock ones are fine, unless you want to spend a lot and have bigger ones installed.

If you go with a COMP cam(fast ramps) or lift over .490, its a good idea and probably required to do the whole show(springs/pushrods). The two specs that you have listed are COMP grinds.

The other option is a regrind, which most people on the board are against. Ironman has had good results from running a regrind with the stock valvetrain. He still needed pushrods and gained about 25rwhp. The downside to that grind from SSM/Crowler is that drivebility drops a lot from a LOT of lope.

Hope this helps.

**Ttop34** · 11-18-2002, 12:32 PM

Not sure about the cam swap price but I've been quoted $400 for cam and spring swap. That is from somebody that I'm indirectly associated with though so it may be a bit lower than it could be.

I was also wanting a cam that I could keep the stock springs with but have given that up for more lift. I was wanting the same cam as Magnus had, 212/212 112LS .520/.520 but when I talked to Comp on the phone they suggested a 206/212 113LS .512/.520 since the exhaust side of the stock heads doesn't flow that great and that's where the main restriction is(so he says). He also said something about the lobe seperation and cylider preasure which he totally lost me on. Basic information I was looking for was that it costs $304.06 for the cam and $12-14 for shipping. He didn't think they had cores though, just cores for the Grand Prix 3.8, hmmmm...

From what I've gathered, you want new springs if your lift is over .5 and you need to mill the pedastools(not a clue what that is) if the lift is over .510. I'm not sure if the 212/212 cam will be friendly to a stock computer though. The Comp guy seemed to think that I need a chip burnt to run that cam. Also for that much lift I think you need retainers which again, I don't know what those are. Do you need new pushrods though?

**Loochy88** · 11-18-2002, 01:17 PM

ok.... where can you get the new/better pushrods and springs? how much are they and do they raise the price of install at all?

**Dominic** · 11-18-2002, 02:45 PM

Ttop34, we run the same cam as grand prixs.. all 3800-II motors, even L67 supercharged ones, run identical cams AFAIK.

Running the comp 206/212 113LS is a good option, it will require new springs if you want it to perform and be reliable. Its 100% compatible with the PCM, it does not throw a SES or cause problems, and it does help the power curve quite substantially.

**Ttop34** · 11-18-2002, 05:57 PM

That's what I thought about the cams since I was going to order mine from a Grand Prix site. Do you know if the a 212/212 cam will be as nice to the PCM? Would there be any gain over the 206/212 cam? What about increasing the lobe seperation to 113 instead of 112 on the 212/212?
I'm really thinking about getting the HHP3 to up the rev limiter to 6,000 or so to help get closer to the peak hp.

Loochy88, I hope that I'm not hyjacking your post and this information will help you with your cam search too.

Just talked to Comp Cams again and they really want to put 4 degrees of advance in my cam. What exactly is that and how will that work with using either a Jet Chip or a HPP3?

Also, what's the difference in 112LS and 113LS performance wise in those two cams listed above?(nevermind, just read Arctc Wolf's response)

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: Ttop34 ]

**nino** · 11-18-2002, 06:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr> The downside to that grind from SSM/Crowler is that drivebility drops a lot from a LOT of lope.
<hr></blockquote>

i totally disagree. that is true if you specify the specs, but if you get what tom recommends, drivability is not an issue. well, i dont know, i am the guy with a broken valve guide. but then again my cam is nothing like what all the young kids are doing nowadays. but i do have a ls of 114.

**jonny985** · 11-18-2002, 09:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by nino:

i totally disagree. that is true if you specify the specs, but if you get what tom recommends, drivability is not an issue. well, i dont know, i am the guy with a broken valve guide. but then again my cam is nothing like what all the young kids are doing nowadays. but i do have a ls of 114.<hr></blockquote>

I am going on what Ironman has said on the board a few times, especially on this post a few months.

"If you want to "slap" in a cam then why not go with the SSM regrind cam? I'm running one with stock valvetrain and have had great results both NA (25rwhp gain) and also on the nitrous. Recently adding the blower the car pulls like a MOFO. I think the 210/214 .450 113 is a great multi-purpose cam and has worked great with everything I've thrown at it.

Downside is it's not totally streetable, I'm not fond of it for a daily driver car. For example I can't run my AC in stop and go traffic or the car will stall out on me. And until the car is warm in closed loop you just can't drive it without it stalling out."

http://www.camarov6.com/cgi-bin/ulti...&f=16&t=000764

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: jonny985 ]

**nino** · 11-18-2002, 10:14 PM

yes, i remember that being a problem. BUT, was that toms choice of specs for the cam? (that i dont know) granted i dont have the same specs, but the cam tom gave me works fine. i turn my ac on all the time down here in san anto.

**jonny985** · 11-18-2002, 10:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by nino:
yes, i remember that being a problem. BUT, was that toms choice of specs for the cam? (that i dont know) granted i dont have the same specs, but the cam tom gave me works fine. i turn my ac on all the time down here in san anto.<hr></blockquote>

I'm very curous about this, do you think it is from the 114 LS?

I was turned off from this cam becuase of the drivability problems Ironman experianced.

Can you elaborate on your thoughts of this cam?

**nino** · 11-18-2002, 10:29 PM

i doubt it cause i have a 114 ls

and if you see the specs that magnus said he was thinking about getting in that last post you pointed out-thats my cam with 114 ls.

**Loochy88** · 11-18-2002, 10:35 PM

ok, a couple more questions: (sorry guys... im getting there... ;) )

ok, from the looks of things, the cam im deciding on is going to have to be this

206/212 intake duration I/E
.320/.325 cam lift I/E
113 Lobe Sep.

1.6:1 Rocker Arm Ratio
.512/.520 lift I/O

i think most of my questions are answered now.

I found this cam for sale here for 300:

http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...y_Code=GPUNDER

and the pushrods, springs, retainers are here:

http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...y_Code=GPUNDER

of the pushrods, springs, and retainers, is there anything thats not necessary. how much of a risk if any would it be to not use one or all of the three. is there any one i could easily get away without?

also of all the parts i have listed is there anywhere to get them cheaper?

Most importantly... is it 100% streetable?

[ November 18, 2002: Message edited by: Loochy88 ]

**Ironman24** · 11-18-2002, 11:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by jonny985:

I'm very curous about this, do you think it is from the 114 LS?

I was turned off from this cam becuase of the drivability problems Ironman experianced.

Can you elaborate on your thoughts of this cam?<hr></blockquote>

I think a lot of my driveability issues are because of the ported out TB along with the cam. Maybe if I would have left the TB alone (I don't suggest porting it out) the car would still be more driveable. The LT1 injectors don't really help either.

A solution to any of the problems I experience is some custom programming on the ecm. With a little tweaking I'm sure I could drive my car daily if I really wanted to.

IMHO in my experience the more you play with the car and the more radical you become the realiabity factor drops more and more. I'm beyond the point of trusting to go very far in my car without the possibility of something breaking. Just something to keep in mind. I would never have gone radical with the cam, blower, etc if I didn't have another Camaro to drive.

**jonny985** · 11-19-2002, 01:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>

Most importantly... is it 100% streetable?

<hr></blockquote>

IMO, it would work great and be very streetable. I'm thinking of going with a setup very similar to that as well but maybe a little more radical with the cam.

Also, thanks Ironman and Nino for clearing up my confusion on the regrind.
So you both are pretty happy with those specs??

**Loochy88** · 11-19-2002, 02:04 PM

i dont think anyone around here has that cam, but if anyone wants to make an educated guess as to what kind of gains i might see it would be appreciated.

any close guess is good, i just wanna get an idea before i drop some big $$$ on it

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