1.9 Roller Rockers?

[1DangerousV6]

i was looking at the I Win set on 3800performance.com..i've done a search..but the opinions on these are SO mixed..im interested in them because they are a mod i think i can do myself..add 10 - 15 horses..and seem to help the juice?..i want to keep the stock heads/cam..would these and a new set of valve springs be a good move sometime in the future?..just wondering..thanks!

[Little G]

I am not in agreement with high ratio rockers because:

A. They bend the push-rod

B. They side load the pin-end of the valve

so just get a cam so you can do this properly.

['94firebirdv6]

its always better to get your lift from a cam and not from rockers. increasing rocker ratio just adds stress to the valvetrain. a nice cam along with around 1.6 rockers would do nicely.

[T-Punk]

Yes you can do the rockers yourself, and there are plenty of guys that have done tham with no problems. The IWins are cheaper because they are just reworked stockers. The higher ratio is deffinately worth some power and should compliment the n20 pretty well. The IWins have the roller pivot like our stockers, no roller tip, and are not lightweight alluminum. Because they dont have a roller tip they wont take out any more friction that stock, and because they are just as heavy as stock they wont help you rev quicker, basically they are just as efficient as stock. However, the higher ratio will gove you more power. All in all its a pretty good mod if you dont plan on upgrading your cam. I would recomend LS6 springs and intense lightweight pushrods when you do the rockers.

[1DangerousV6]

if i can do the rockers (if i get a torque wrench)..would i also be able to do springs, retainers, and push rods myself?..or will those require more mechanical knowledge/tools?

[RallyRed 98]

springs probably may or may not be a problem, but you'll need a spring compressor. if you can get the retainers out you've got the springs out, and the pushrods will be the first thing to come out.

[NCState98]

You may want to check out the SLP 1.8 rockers that Ironman is selling. I helped to install them and they look like a quality set of rockers/pushrods. They are full roller as opposed to the I Wins you're looking at, and lightweight. Grab a set of LS6 springs and you're good to go!

http://www.camarov6.com/ubb/ultimate...c;f=8;t=006651

[grayman]

This is the first time I have heard the possible disadvantages of high ratio rockers put this way. It is compelling...

"A. They bend the push-rod

B. They side load the pin-end of the valve"

Regarding "A" Yes, have heard recomendations to upgrade to hi tech push rods...but never heard or read about anybody actually bending a push rod from using the 1.9 alluminum roller rockers.

Regarding "B" I have never heard or read this. It does sound like a serious consideration, though. I am trying to picture it...but all I see is the rocker ROLLER pushing down on the end of the valve...from a pivot point that is static...(the rocker bolt/pedastal. The idea that a 'roller' is causing any sideways distortion...hmm...not seeing it. I am not a valvetrain scientist, though. I am just a cave man. I read and ask questions.

The GP forums are THICK with high ratio rocker posts and users.

dangerous...I always assumed you had a fancy pants cam in that ride of yours.

I only have 10,000 miles on my car and just did not want to crack open the engine far enough to swap cams. If you are sure you don't want to change cams in the future..(high lift) then rocker upgrade can be a worthwile mod...but pricey. Still cheaper than paying someone to put in a cam though.

On my car they added SOTP gain from 4000 rpm on up. That was with stock exhaust. When I upgraded to full 3" from Y to Tail there was no more powerband at 4000 rpm...the car was just balls out faster from the get go.

With the supercharger...well, now it is a minny beast. Four letter words are the most commen (yelled) explitive when people ride in the car for the first time and a drop the hammer from a 15mph roll. Gets em every time. So I think the rockers work pretty good with the S/C too. (literature for S/C car with aftermarket exhaust is + 23 HP. I believe it.)

skill level...medium. you already know you need a torque wrench so I am sure you can handle it...the springs too.

a telescoping magnet for the retainers and a 'clamp style' valve compressor...not the lever type. look for a compressor that has removable handle with a HEX head...so you can put a socket wrench on it when your hands get tired. You also want an Air Hold Fitting and an air compressor if the heads are still on the car. Old school way to do this is to remove spark plug and stuff 1/4 nylon rope into the cylinder...keep packing...then turn the crank until that piston is at the top of its stroke. This creates a compact wad of rope to hold the valve in when you remove the spring. You will want at least the LS6 90# springs...you use NOS and stuff...you want better than stock springs for sure.

Not all push rods are for all lifter/rocker combinations. who ever you get rockers from will have a recommendation. Intense 3rd gen recommends High Tec rather than oil restrictive..for example..(i think I have that right..DOH!)


I need to finish the write up for my rocker install.

There are some guides for the hole process as well. I have links to some on my site.

oh, as TPunk was mentioning about the alluminum roller vs steel...the alluminum roller rockers reduce valvetrain inertial mass by about the weight of one piston.

[ March 05, 2005, 05:52 AM: Message edited by: grayman ]

[1DangerousV6]

wow thanks a LOT for the info..i just have the stock heads/cam in my car..i dont wanna go too deep in just because of the cost and its my daily driver now..so however long the shop has it is how long im out of a car..plus i just finished up my nitrous system and spending money trying to get the direct port to work so im a little low on funds now..but i think over the summer when its warmer out and i can work on my car a lot more i'll end up getting these and probably ported intakes..since they're both relatively inexpensive, are mods i can do myself, and will compliment my existing mods nicely

also..one more question..what if i DID change to ported heads from suspersix motorsports..these come with everything all assembled already..would these be easier for me to put on (or just as easy)?..and which would be best for my application with ported intakes but still stock cam..stage 2, 2+, or 3?..thanks!

[ March 05, 2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: 1DangerousV6 ]

[NCState98]

This is the first time I have heard the possible disadvantages of high ratio rockers put this way. It is compelling...

"A. They bend the push-rod

B. They side load the pin-end of the valve"

Regarding "A" Yes, have heard recomendations to upgrade to hi tech push rods...but never heard or read about anybody actually bending a push rod from using the 1.9 alluminum roller rockers.

Regarding "B" I have never heard or read this. It does sound like a serious consideration, though. I am trying to picture it...but all I see is the rocker ROLLER pushing down on the end of the valve...from a pivot point that is static...(the rocker bolt/pedastal. The idea that a 'roller' is causing any sideways distortion...hmm...not seeing it. I am not a valvetrain scientist, though. I am just a cave man. I read and ask questions.

From my understanding, it looks like these concerns may be accurate for the I Win rockers he is looking at. Mainly because they are not aluminum and do not have a roller tip. (Both of your comments mentioned aluminum rockers and the roller tip pushing on the valve.) These concerns would not be the case with Mike's SLP rocker combo that I posted. 1Dangerous, plan on a full day to install rockers yourself, but it is probably something you could handle. For the price you're looking at for the I Win, i personally think Mike's (practically new... 0 mileage) combo for ~100 more would be well worth it.

[1DangerousV6]

hmmm..if i go that way then i'll just buy that set new..i dont have the dough to do anything more right now

[ March 05, 2005, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: 1DangerousV6 ]

[grayman]

yea dude....I would definatly hold off if money is concern until you can afford Aluminum roller rockers if you are committed to high ratio rocker install. The aluminum rockers lower valve train mass and the roller reduces stress.

If you are doing the heads...try to know for sure if you will be changing cam in future or if you will be doing rockers. Once you know that you will be able to pick the appropriate vavle springs. LS6 springs are medium load (90#) as opposed to our stock low load springs (55# i think) If go with stronger than 90# springs you will most likely want stronger pushrods. Our stock push rods are supposed to be good (and have worked fine for me at 2000+ miles...driving like I have a hot rod.)

YOu could install high ratio rockers and a cam later so long as you pick/custom grind the right specs. with 1.9 rockers the valve lift is about .490 (?) So, you still have a little room for higher lift cam...not much though. you also have room for an altered duration that would compliment your NOS and/or S/C.


Regarding changing heads yourself:
That is a little tougher to answer. In a way it is easier than (or less combersome) or just as time consuming to change the heads as it is to remove/replace valve prings while they are on the car. It is a lot of back ache time to be leaning over the car...getting the valve compressor on just right...cranking it...then fiddling with the air hold fitting for each cylinder...back and forth...etc. The heads are a bit more straight forward...just keep unbolting....then start bolting things back on. But is is a big deal and you would want to use good technique, etc.

But the front and top of engine are torn down pretty far for valve spring replacement. you are already halfway to removing the heads at that point.

I think I answered your latest post...I lost track. lol

[98Camaro3.8]

Originally posted by grayman:
But the front and top of engine are torn down pretty far for valve spring replacement. you are already halfway to removing the heads at that point.

How can you say that? To change the valve springs all you have to do is pull the valve covers. Took me 5 minutes to remove the valve covers.


I definitely would not remove the heads just to swap the valve springs. Way too much work for such a little project. You'd have a hell of a lot more stuff to remove, and it would cost at least $200 more.

[grayman]

He is talking about swapping heads in the future and wants to know if he can do it himself. he will save labor time if he orders his heads with the springs he wants to use. when it comes time for changing heads he won't be going back in there a second time...

ok, perhaps..."halfway there..." is an understatement. he still has to get the headers off/loose. But still, he is trying to decide if he can do it himself. that is always a tricky question. Someone who wouldn't think twice about his ability to do somethng like change heads wouldn't ask that question. But intermediate mechanics are born under situations like this.

My comments are based on considering Skill Level not time. That is the core of this thread.

[GPFish]

I have 30+K miles on my ER rockers. They are basically reworked stockers like the IWins, but are designed for maximum performance for the L36.

Besides valve float, I have had no problems. And some day I will install the second set of LS6 springs to eliminate that. (damn demod then no demod decision)