MSD DIS 4 and MSD coil packs going in monday

[Tiago]

the simptoms he is displaying are comon, "Idle is a lot smoother, and acceleration feels smoother. "

everyone with one of these notices this. It is not a HP mod, its an icing on teh cake sort of thing.

[hawgs]

hmmm... so how much did you spend again for a smoother idle and no HP?

[Magnus]

You could probably improve your idle much better with tuning, same goes for acceleration.

I just don't want to see the MSD DIS-4 hype start up again like it did several years back. It was worthless hype.

[Arctc Wolf]

Here's something to consider. why do ppl run bigger gapping w/ spark plugs on normal engines? to get a more complete burn. if bigger gapping is better, then why do forced induction guys run plugs w/ smaller gapping? The reason why is because there is too much air/fuel mixture in the cylinder to get a spark across the gap w/ the STOCK powered ignition, meaning there isn't enough power to jump the gap w/ the STOCK ignition. Stock motors have less cylinder pressure than forced induction motors, so a weaker spark can cross the bigger gap. Now, how would u fix this? well, u can get a smaller gapping spark plug, but u run the chance of not getting all the air/fuel burned, or you can try to squeeze every last drop of power and economy out of ur motor and use stock gapping with a stronger ignition. There's a lot of ways to go about this. This just happened to be the way I wanted to go w/ this.

I had Hypertech programming on my car before the ignition was put in, and I can honestly say that it helped my car power-wise. when we did the ignition, we disconnected the battery, scrambling the tuning. I know we did because my shifts are no longer firm like they used to be after I put the programming in. I have felt no loss of power after this. I should have felt a loss even tho I had no prgramming, but I didn't. If it's not the ignition, then I can't explain why I still have decent power. I have not reinstalled the programming, and won't untill I get my next set of mods in, consisting of a ZZP WP, ZZP TB Spacer, and 160* thermostat. After that, I will reinstall tuning, and see what kind of mileage I can get after that.

I do see better idling as well as a smoother powerband. Filling in the little valleys in my powerband will help me run faster, even tho I might not make more peak power. As I add more modifications to my car, at least I will be assured that I have a smooth, steady powerband throughout.

I also found out that I have an exhaust leak from my driver's side. there is a piece of metal tubing that either connects to the manifold or to the head itself, and i can tell there is a leak because it is black, sooty, and appears slightly burned around where it's leaking. any ideas on this??? from anyone???

[Magnus]

I can almost gaurantee you that the MSD DIS-4 will not produce a hotter or stronger spark than the 3800 Series II coils. A spark can only be so bright.

Just an FYI.. The INTENSE turbo car runs over 20 lbs of boost on stock coils... and still has a hot enough spark to prevent spark blow-out. ;)

Disconnecting the battery does not scramble your hypertech programming. It is still there.

I'd really really hate to see the MSD DIS-4 hype arise again. It really is not needed on just about any 3800 series II.

If you don't believe me, dyno with it and without the bypass plug.

[njp98]

Wouldn't you actually have to dyno it with out the coil interface modules or anything because the bypass plug leaves the ignition going from the bottom of the stock ignition thru the CIM the wires and back (more resistance is what i'm saying) so couldn't you loose a slight amount of spark "power" from this resistance and then when you test with the DIS4 it adds some power. Then you doing a comparison between a slightly weaker ignition system (with the bypass plug resistance) against the DIS4 enhanced system? So really the only true comparison would be if you took the CIMs off and left the just the stock coils? Just throwing that out there. Does that sound logical at all?

[Clark Griswold]

We should have an advanced tech and advanced tech for retards. This post would go nicely in the retard section.

[Arctc Wolf]

I'm not saying the spark is "hotter" nor "brighter". I am saying that more energy is being transmitted each spark event. Yes, it is possible to send more power to a spark plug and have it actually be used.

magnus, what spark plugs does the Intense drag car use? what is the gapping? I'm betting that it's a spark plug with a smaller gap than stock, prolly around .035 or less. I'd like to see how the car runs w/ .055 gapping and having everything else stay the same, meaning the heat range they use on it currently. This would allow us to see truly if the stock ignition is as strong as u say it is. If it is as strong, then they shouldn't get any misfires from it. If it does get misfires, then I would like to see them upgrade the ignition and then see if it still misfires. I doubt it would.

Also, the hypertech programming does not stay in the computer when the battery is disconnected. Only the engine specifics that GM sets as parameters in our computers remain in the stock ECU's. The rest of it is reset and the car must relearn it all. I'm sure u know about this Magnus, having a lot of experience w/ our motors. If you want, try installing the HPP3 programming in a car, keep it in for a couple hundred miles, and then diconnect the battery. I'm sure that the programming will be deleted, despite the fact that the programmer says it can still pull it out and return it to stock. Especially do the shift point firmness adjustment. when the car's battery is reconnected, it will shift just as sloppily as stock. that will be a dead giveaway.

BTW, the "retard" comments are not appreciated. I'm fairly sure that I have more knowledge across more subjects than the person who made this comment. If you don't have anything to say w/o attacking me, don't say it.

[ June 21, 2004, 02:24 AM: Message edited by: Arctc Wolf ]

[Magnus]

hehe.. HP Tuners is my love slave. Sometimes you will see me sign my posts as - Keith, HP Tuners.. I've also been known to respond to Keith@HPtuners.com. What I'm getting at is I know a good amount about the PCM and have a lot of experience reprogramming them.

You will not lose your tune when you unplug the battery. You will only lose the learned values from the driving conditions you have encountered, much of which can be re-learned in 20 minutes of driving post startup.

Also, not good to run 20+ lbs of boost on plugs gapped at .050+.

You may not want to believe me, .. have to justify the cost you put into the unit.. but I just hope others take my advice.

In regards to the resistance remark, the + feed to the entire coil pack tray is smaller than the MSD DIS-4 wires.

Believe it or not, the MSD DIS-4 is a pretty worthless mod for the 3800 series II.

Dude, I was there. I spent the $$$ on the DIS-4 and the many hours on the install.. and much T&T to determine if the DIS-4 helped or not.. I too also believed that the car idled better and ran smoother.. but the fact of the matter was the car never idled poorly in the first place and everythign was just in my head. You put a mod on and you expect things to improve. Car ran exactly the same after I removed the DIS-4 as it did with it on. Only cool thing about the DIS-4 was the tach-out I used for my window switch.

If you REALLY want to get down to the nitty gritty, you could say that the MSD DIS-4 will hurt your performance.... because of its added weight. It is no feather.

My .02, take it for what its worth. I haven't owned a 3800 Series II for almost 1.5 years now.

[Arctc Wolf]

Magnus, why is it a bad thing to run higher boost levels w/ .050 gapping?

The programming must have been erased, otherwise why would my transmission shift go back to sloppy shifts instead of crisp?

I don't need to justify the cost I put out. I am sure of mind that the money was well worth it for what i got. I do feel that you are wrong about the unit tho. I think it does and can make a difference on our motors. I think it does. Sam Strano thought it did.

[Magnus]

Bigger gap means increased chance of blow-out. If you run a spark hot enough to be able to run .050 gap on 20+ lbs of boost, you might start welding your plug to things. ;)

Your shifts change beacuse the PCM adjusts line pressure (shift firmness) based on MAF readings and other various sensors. It now has to relearn command values.

We are at a stale mate... I can just about gaurantee that it won't improve performance. Also, if you bring your car to me, I would prove infront of your very own eyes that it doesn't.

[Arctc Wolf]

Do you think that the DIS 4 could provide a spark hot enough to light off a 20+ psi mixture w/ .050 gapping?

how often do Nitro rail's weld their spark plugs to their heads? I think they're running way hotter sparks to light off that mixture, and I doubt they have their spark plugs welded to things.

[njp98]

I think everyone missed what I'm trying to say about resistance when testing the DIS4. I'm talking about the wires going to and from the coil interface modules, not the tray. How wouldn't that create less resistance by removing CIMs and their wires, or are you saying the difference would be negligable?

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

so what your saying is i can sell me msd and just keep the MSD multi channle boost retard.?

[Tiago]

I don't think you can run one without the other...