The Swift Guide for a quick v6 F-body

[Swift_3800_F-Body]

This guide may or may not be challenged by the opinions of others, but who cars.

First of all we have OVERDRIVE!

Why i havent seen most of you guys use higher stall torque converters is beyond me. Its been proven over and over that a higher stall torque converter will increase performence noticeably.

Gearing, this is an issue with most people, but from what many have told me in the past by the word ont he streets. 4.11's are most likely the best choice for our v6 or you could try try 4.56

LSD is a must if you dont already have this get it now!

Better traction is always good, lower control arms, torque arm if you can come across a cheap one, aftermarket springs.

Any simple weight reduction is great as long as its not from the rear end to much.

I seriously think its rediculous that anyone would buy supersix heads. the 98+ 3800 v6 heads flow enough, porting them and your intake would be the just as good as buying whole new heads.

IMPORTANT...

air/fuel tuning, engine cooling, air/exhaust flow, good spark are all essential in running good performence. Upgrading Fuel Pump from stock is always a plus.

I see people using aftermarket MSD's which is non-sense. the stock MSD is well good enough.

Cams, this is a subject it seems not many like to get into because it requires real thinking.

Depending on your setup how much air flow/fuel and exhaust is coming and going certain cams may not respond well, its up to you to find out what you are running and which numbers will benifit your setup.

Running your 3800 v6 with a good

well flowing intake/tuned fuel deliveryfuel/well flowing exhaust to match intake/matched cam/4.11 gears/higher stall torque converter/reasonable traction mods, this will take your car into low 14's

add low boost supercharger or turbo... you just made a low 13 second car do a little more work, now you hit 12's with a v6.

[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Swift_3800_F-Body ]</p>

[Wicked 3800 V6]

Dude you're killing me. Really.
Have you read about the top V6'ers? Magnus did extensive R and D (i.e. many passes) on which gears to use, as did James. Guess what, as far as I recall, they run 3.23's.
The top auto guys DO run high stall converters. They DO run MSD boxes / MAFT(+) boxes.
Weight reduction -- a given, have you seen what's underneath of James's (12sec) hood?

Perhaps I just don't understand your post, but at least you cleaned up your sig.

You're challenging SuperSix mods? Show me your justification.

And, hey, this isn't advanced tech.

-Rob

[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Wicked 3800 V6 ]</p>

[Magnus]

Hmm..

most of the fast guys run aftermarket converters.

LSD.. you are pointing out the obvious.
LCA's prevent wheel hop.
Springs/Shocks/Torque arm not needed on a V6.
Weight reduction .. no brainer
tuning.. duh
MSD DIS-4 worthless to 3.8, good for 3.4.
SSM heads do make more power. You will go faster with SSM heads versus stock, period.
95 same heads as 02.

Wicked, na wise here is my gear R&D
3.42: 14.2 stock heads/cam
3.73: 14.0 stock heads/cam
4.10: 13.6 heads/cam

Gear makes a huge difference on the 3.8.

MAF T+ is a definate good investment if you can tune your car. That definately helped me squeeze HP out of the car.

I'll leave this in advanced for a while as a good debate may spring from this. If it stays "basic" i'll toss it on over to general.

[Swift_3800_F-Body]

1 Keith Prociuk Magnus 97 Firebird
4.10 Drag 1.774 13.674 98.22

2 Keith Handlon Seppo Kaitainen 99 Camaro
3.73 Drag 1.916 13.799 97.95

3 Zach Davis Camaro_Zach 00 Camaro
4.10 Drag 1.881 13.889 98.86

4 James Dowles 12secondv6 97 Firebird
3.23 Drag 1.973 14.304 92.73

5 Kris Thomas Slacker69
3.42 Drag 1.866 14.345 92.55

Notice how james and kris are both in 14's the top 3 are all running 13's .6 seconds faster with 4.10

Nitrous runs are a little different wouldnt you agree?

look at magnus

Heads, Cam, Vig 3600 converter, 4.10 gears

and he had the highest for N/A and Power Adder

It makes sense what im saying... and tell me, why on earth would i need an aftermarket MSD? there is no reason at all for this. the L67 GTP boys also have the 3rd generation of DIS, which is what we have and they are doing alot more than us. just because someone uses something else doesnt mean you need it unless you can prove a problem. some people have said they have had problems with coils, I have never had problems ever. Remember aftermarket doesnt always mean its worth it. Magazines will try to sell you products that you really dont need. They will give facts and [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] but in the end you have to see how much it really matters, like comparing supersix heads to porting your stock intake and heads. im sure the difference is not by much only stretched in tall tale advertising.

james car is said to weigh around 2300 pounds
msd dis-4 really is not needed, but it seems he is sending quite alot of nitrous into his engine so it may be

[ September 08, 2003: Message edited by: Swift_3800_F-Body ]</p>

[redthunder96]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> Wicked, na wise here is my gear R&D
3.42: 14.2 stock heads/cam
3.73: 14.0 stock heads/cam
4.10: 13.6 heads/cam <hr></blockquote>

What mods go into those, obviously intake and exhaust.. But a 14.2 with 3.42's is going to take more than that right? And what all would go into the 13.6.. Intake, exhaust, heads, cam, 4.10's sound like they might get that to me.. That'd be something like getting the super six package and adding 4.10's right?

[Swift_3800_F-Body]

magnus pre 98 heads are a bit stronger as i was reading they did some small changes, not anything by making more flow though you are correct [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Swift_3800_F-Body]

maybe i should read mroe on this supersix pack, i was lead to believe it was just heads.

[Wicked 3800 V6]

Not to post something wrong again (3.23's statement), but I think 12sec is down to 2900lbs or sub (w/o driver). Hell, I'm 3250ish.
-Rob

[Magnus]

MSD DIS-4 is worthless on a 3.8 period, we already have waste spark ignitions. I tested it at the track SEVERAL times back to back, and NEVER gained nor lost a thing.

My mods and info is all in my web page (in sig)... there is plenty of info there about my car and what it took to run the #'s I did.

As for power adder, more gear still helps. The 12.3 Pass I ran though, look at my 1/8th.. It was an EASY 11 sec pass.. but... i had to short shift the car by adjusting the speedo by almost 50% using a jet SCU... i was in 4'th gear at the 1/8th.. talk about bog.

Supersix package can be many things, it can be heads/cam or heads/cam/intakes.. you can also get heads with bigger valves which is cool.

[merlinsrealm]

Well I only have one thing on this that I disagree with......It's a rule of thumb that your stall should be 1000 RPM less than your peak torque line as it starts to fall....So for example if your torgue starts to fall at 4200 then your stall should be 3200.

I also agree with Magnus about the MSD...I too have tested the MSD versus our stock one and there is no change so dont waste the money.

Eric

[Arctc Wolf]

higher stall TC's do help auto's the most. the main thing is getting one that's suited to the car and the cam.

gearing also makes a big difference. the problem is, people also want a driveable car for the highway, not just a race car. sure, u can put 4.10's in a stick and make it move w/ good gas mileage, mess w/ the 5th gear ration, get even better cruising rpm, ect., but auto's can't be messed w/ inside the tranny. 3.42's or 3.73's are good all-around gears for stock height tires and street cars.

LSD, no brainer, always better to have both wheels driven.

lca's help prevent the rear-end from unloading from the ground, also known as wheel hop. same goes w/ a torque arm. relocation brackets on a non-lowered car will help force the tires into the ground more, preventing the tires from sliping, giving more traction.

any weight reduction at all from the car will help. battery relocation/dry cell battery, fiberglass hood, lightweight k-member, and spare tire/jack removal are all going to help reduce weight, but not affect the streetability of the car.

heads will get more air in and out of the motor, period. they will help, but they help mroe on moderately modified to heavily modified cars.

the gains on MSD's are seen at low rpm's. Magnus, u won't see a gain at the track because, the motor is stalled up to 3000+ off the line, and u don't ever see the increase in hp at low rpm's, cuz ur never in the low rpm's. this will help gas mileage, and maybe on heavily boosted motors. the only advantage i can see from this being used, is low rpm fuel economy increasing, and stock spark plug gapping on 14+ psi of boost, since it increases spark energy as well as uses multiple sparks.

something else u guys forgot, swap out the 2 pc. steel and 1 pc. steel driveshafts for a lighter aluminum one, and get the tranny rebuilt to performance specs. the quicker shift from the tranny will get u less time per shift, and the aluminum driveshaft will lighten up the car, make it rev a little quicker, and get a couple more ponies to the ground.

i say this setup, along w/ intake and exhaust, will get a person into the low 14's, high 13's.

[slacker69]

I say get as big of a stall as you can but make sure you build it for your Application. Loose for NA and tight for nitrous alot has to do with tuning and shift points essecilly with nitrous. Cam can make you or break you. You really need to know what you are doing. There are alot of Noobs that are i need a cam i need a cam make me a suggestion. If you can make your own suggestion for a cam and not just catalog search and say those numbers are big it should be good, you are not ready for a cam. When i first wanted a cam i knew nothing but now i know quite a bit. I have installed and/or unistalled everything on a 3800 Series II. I know it backward to forward. I knew nothing when i cam into this so i feel that this car has been a great learning experence but i feel that for me it is time to move on, now this is not in stone but my car is payed off and I have done damn near everything to the car. Time to move on to bigger motors with huge potential.

[merlinsrealm]

You cannot make a blanket statement to get the biggest stall converter you can...Why get a converter that exceeds your peak torque line.. The whole purpose of the converter is to take advantage of the peak torque line. The only true way for this is to have the car dynoed to see where that torque line starts to fall.

If you get a converter that exceeds that you are wasting time, money and 60ft time at the track.

Eric

[white96six]

I have two questions. what kind of gas mileage do you get with the 4.10 gears? and also if someone wanted to use the MAFT+ are there any basic way to tune the car to make it run better? like for someone who doesnt know much about what way to tune new cars to make them run better or how does that work? thanks.

[Magnus]

A4's with stock verters brake torque up to 2500 or so and then launch. I launched my car from 1300 and flashed it to 3500.. The car should flash harder if I'm making more hp/tq down low.. it did not. My ET's and MPH where identical.

As far as stall goes, a bigger stall keeps you in the upper rpm's.. gives you a shorter shift extension. A 4000 RPM verter would be great if you could shift at 6500.. if you had a cam that peaked 5500-6500 it would be ideal.. EVEN if your peak torque is at 3800.