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Ok, All is well. Just finished swapping the stock 1.6 rockers with the intense stage III 1.9 alluminum roller rockers. Started car...no tick tick tick. Went driving for about an hour. Car has more power. I also think the exhaust ricey/raspiness was pushed up higher in the rpm range. That's ok by me. Car sounds 'tougher' while pulling under load or incline...a bit more guts, too. There is no noticable difference in engine tone at idle.
I did not change the pushrods nor did I upgrade the valve springs. (7000 miles on engine...I don't ride the rev limiter much either.)
Would I recommend this mod? Yes. Would I recommend them over a performance cam? Well...those are two completly different mods. Those that want a cam tend to either know how to instal it, modify the rest of the valvetrain and/or are not concerned about emissions nor gas mileage. If you want an actual "more fuel to the cylinders = more horsepower" upgrade for your 3.8L but do not want or do not know how to change a cam...(and don't plan on aftermarket-high lift cam in the future) then high ratio rockers are a nice modification to consider. They are a bit pricey...but just about every (real HP increasing) modification for these cars is expensive.
Notes on instal:
RE: the dreaded Passenger Side Lift Bracket.
If you have yet to take yours off...well, it's not fun. If you have managed to get the passenger side lift bracket off...then good going. You know who you are. [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img] I, however, can not join ya'll on the podium to celebrate...I was not able to get the SECOND lift bracket bolt off. I got the first bolt off...the one on the outside corner, by raising the car very high off the ground, (careful please...recomend second 'safety' jack...you'll be pushin pretty hard) driving to the auto store to get more metric tools...especialy a long handled 13mm wrench, putting on two pairs of gloves for padding on my little girly hands before I could get that outside *(&^5#% piece of ($%%#@()* )( &^ bolt to budge. FINALLY. phew.... I just could not get any leverage on the second..inner bracket bolt. I then grabbed a 3' long 2x2 and a hammer. standing near the front passenger side I bent the bracket back with the 2x2 and the hammer. WHAP, WHAP. WHAP. (Don't break anyting..there are heater hoses back ther.) The bracket metal is pretty soft, too. it can be tweaked and bent by hand.
Now that the braket is off/bent away...you can get to the lower rear valve cover bolt.
The 1.9 kit comes with 6 pedastal plates and 12 convex rocker pedastals. The stock one piece rocker pedalstal plate is removed when installing this kit. The directions do not mention this...but it becomes obvious that the stock plate has to go in order to use the new plate/pedastals. I suggest installing the rockers from the rear of the engine and working forward. This way you can make sure that the pedastals are properly fited to the plate as well as the push rod seating in the rocker. Snug them down (torque later...after all rockers are snug on one side of v6) so they stay in place and then move on to the next rocker. Pretty easy.
For 'newer...younger mechanics'...if you do not have a well developed mechanicaly minded photographic memory then make sure you either lable the nuts and bolts, take notes, or at least once you have a particular 'divice' off the engine that you replace the nuts/bolts where they belong until it it is time for reassembly. Get a manual too. Don't drop a rocker pedestal in the head. use two hands while bolting up the new rocker/pedastals.
I used a real old pistol grip oil can (thanks grandpa) to liberaly squirt syntec 10w30 over the rocker, rods, etc., before putting the valve covers back on.
BTW Haynes manual said to 'move the trannsmission dipstick tube'. remember that second lift bracket bolt I talked about earlier? I did not have to move the tranny stick tube to get the valve cover off.
Time to install...Well...um, it took longer than expected. I had to get more tools...(don't you like it when you buy a 'set' of say...deep sockets...and it does not come with 'all' sizes...sheesh.) The darn lift bracket took FAR too long. That kinda messed up my hours.... Give yourself extra time if you still have that passenger lift bracket on the car. Reassembly was less than 2 hours...including the rockers. It was my first time tearing down mine or any 3.8 L metric engine that far. (I am pretty familiar with vintage, non serpintine v-8's, to say the least)
"psst. pssst... hey, buddy... the 3/8 drive swivel is your friend." ;)
EDIT UPDATE:
finally installed LS6 springs. Valve float is gone. All systems go. I would always recommend upgrading the springs along with the high ratio rockers. It adds time to the install...but worth it.
[ January 11, 2005, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: grayman ]
I did not change the pushrods nor did I upgrade the valve springs. (7000 miles on engine...I don't ride the rev limiter much either.)
Would I recommend this mod? Yes. Would I recommend them over a performance cam? Well...those are two completly different mods. Those that want a cam tend to either know how to instal it, modify the rest of the valvetrain and/or are not concerned about emissions nor gas mileage. If you want an actual "more fuel to the cylinders = more horsepower" upgrade for your 3.8L but do not want or do not know how to change a cam...(and don't plan on aftermarket-high lift cam in the future) then high ratio rockers are a nice modification to consider. They are a bit pricey...but just about every (real HP increasing) modification for these cars is expensive.
Notes on instal:
RE: the dreaded Passenger Side Lift Bracket.
If you have yet to take yours off...well, it's not fun. If you have managed to get the passenger side lift bracket off...then good going. You know who you are. [img]graemlins/rock.gif[/img] I, however, can not join ya'll on the podium to celebrate...I was not able to get the SECOND lift bracket bolt off. I got the first bolt off...the one on the outside corner, by raising the car very high off the ground, (careful please...recomend second 'safety' jack...you'll be pushin pretty hard) driving to the auto store to get more metric tools...especialy a long handled 13mm wrench, putting on two pairs of gloves for padding on my little girly hands before I could get that outside *(&^5#% piece of ($%%#@()* )( &^ bolt to budge. FINALLY. phew.... I just could not get any leverage on the second..inner bracket bolt. I then grabbed a 3' long 2x2 and a hammer. standing near the front passenger side I bent the bracket back with the 2x2 and the hammer. WHAP, WHAP. WHAP. (Don't break anyting..there are heater hoses back ther.) The bracket metal is pretty soft, too. it can be tweaked and bent by hand.
Now that the braket is off/bent away...you can get to the lower rear valve cover bolt.
The 1.9 kit comes with 6 pedastal plates and 12 convex rocker pedastals. The stock one piece rocker pedalstal plate is removed when installing this kit. The directions do not mention this...but it becomes obvious that the stock plate has to go in order to use the new plate/pedastals. I suggest installing the rockers from the rear of the engine and working forward. This way you can make sure that the pedastals are properly fited to the plate as well as the push rod seating in the rocker. Snug them down (torque later...after all rockers are snug on one side of v6) so they stay in place and then move on to the next rocker. Pretty easy.
For 'newer...younger mechanics'...if you do not have a well developed mechanicaly minded photographic memory then make sure you either lable the nuts and bolts, take notes, or at least once you have a particular 'divice' off the engine that you replace the nuts/bolts where they belong until it it is time for reassembly. Get a manual too. Don't drop a rocker pedestal in the head. use two hands while bolting up the new rocker/pedastals.
I used a real old pistol grip oil can (thanks grandpa) to liberaly squirt syntec 10w30 over the rocker, rods, etc., before putting the valve covers back on.
BTW Haynes manual said to 'move the trannsmission dipstick tube'. remember that second lift bracket bolt I talked about earlier? I did not have to move the tranny stick tube to get the valve cover off.
Time to install...Well...um, it took longer than expected. I had to get more tools...(don't you like it when you buy a 'set' of say...deep sockets...and it does not come with 'all' sizes...sheesh.) The darn lift bracket took FAR too long. That kinda messed up my hours.... Give yourself extra time if you still have that passenger lift bracket on the car. Reassembly was less than 2 hours...including the rockers. It was my first time tearing down mine or any 3.8 L metric engine that far. (I am pretty familiar with vintage, non serpintine v-8's, to say the least)
"psst. pssst... hey, buddy... the 3/8 drive swivel is your friend." ;)
EDIT UPDATE:
finally installed LS6 springs. Valve float is gone. All systems go. I would always recommend upgrading the springs along with the high ratio rockers. It adds time to the install...but worth it.
[ January 11, 2005, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: grayman ]
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