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  • #1

    3.8 to 4.1L, Questions

    Is it possible to bore a 3.8 to a 4.1?
    Is it possible to go beyond that?
    Where can I get some more information on this and what would I need, how much would such a project cost me? Can I turbocharge the 4.1? Basicly can you give me information about the possabilities, the qualifications, and the impossabilities about this?

    Call me a dreamer but I want to push my 3.8 V6 to 700 HP, without the use of nitrous. (A blower is a different story though.) What would I need to do to accomplish this? I would like to rebiuld and bore the engine to a 4.1 for the projects fun sakes if it's possible to do this or go beyond it...
    1997 Camaro RS W/T-Tops<br />All Stock / 200 HP
    Tags: None
  • #2
    http://www.zzperformance.com/zzp/pro...troker_kit.htm

    Try a search next time ;)
    Race car - gone but not forgotten - 1997 firebird V6
    nitrous et & mph: 12.168 & 110.95 mph, n/a 13.746 & 96.38 mph
    2013 Dodge Challenger SRT8: 12.125, 116.45
    2010 Ford Taurus SHO: no times yet

    Comment

    • #3
      zoomer told me he could make a custom forged 4.1 stroker for like 4500. After that you could bore 30 over (i would only do this if it were a race only motor). Then get some forged 8.5:1 pistons (with the stroker the compression will really be 8.9:1) then get .074 thick mls head gaskets (this would bring your compression down even further). Finally get port and polished heads and intake (i would recomend abbott for the best price). Now you have to decided what FI you are going with. IF you go turbo then a turbo cam would be the best option to go with it. Then get some 1.6 Roller rockers, retainers, 105 or 130# springs depending on how aggresive your cam is. Then put in some better pushrods, lifters, and maybe some new valve locks. Finally get a bigger fuel pump and injectors and a tuner. This should get you most power out of your engine but will also cause you to be living in your car because you probably wont have any money afterwards.
      2001 Arctic White Firebird With Black Drop Top<br /><br />3:42 Gears<br />Zexel LSD<br />BMR upper A-Arms<br />Trans Am exhaust with 3\" I-pipe and cutout<br />Modified intake<br />Mecham Hood<br />Trans Go shift kit<br />Making rear control arms and panhard

      Comment

      • #4
        700 hp is just the start your tranny will explode you will never keep tire's on the ground.... the 10 bolt will shot to the sun.

        if your going to this you should be ready to spend $30,000 on this to do it right.....

        Look at me i have $26,000 into my V6 now and i'm not even close to done
        www.turbov6camaro.com
        1997 3800 Series II Camaro
        4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug:
        7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod)
        11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty

        Comment

        • #5
          Like I stated before, I've only heard this was possible and it striked my curiosity. So you're going to just have to shoot me for asking the dumb questions I'm about to ask.

          What kind of powergains would this give me ALONE? then what kind of gains would it give me if I were to add a Cam and Port and Polish?

          Is this just like rebiulding an engine only adding better parts?

          The Pistons, Connecting Rods, ect will all be replaced but will they all beable to handle a turbo later?

          Would I need bigger heads and a bigger ThrottleBody? What about the Pulleys?

          Finally my two DUMBEST of questions

          #1 What exactly IS it that makes a 3.8 to a 4.1? whats the determining factor? Is it compression ratio? what determines that?

          And

          #2 What exactly IS a stroker?

          Yes I know I need more knowledge before I begin a project like this... thats why I'm here asking...

          I also know that this project is ganna cost me a hefty little burden cuzz after the engine, I need a new rear end, tranny, wheels... I'm however interested in it because it's a project and I've never seen it done. Trust me, my car see's enough downtime where I could easily have the engine out and modding away!
          1997 Camaro RS W/T-Tops<br />All Stock / 200 HP

          Comment

          • #6
            Need4Camaro,
            Before you modify any aspect of your motor, or the way it is aspirated (I.e. Turbo/ Super Charger), you need to know the basics of how the motor works. The basics of sustaining, tuning, and modifying an 4 stroke internal combustion engine are only as complicated as you make them, but i'd check out www.howstuffworks.com. See how a motor sustains itself, for example: how it keeps itself lubricated (oil pump, oil passages, different types/grades of oil etc) how it keeps itself cool (radiator, fans, water pump, maybe see how an intercooler works since your interested in turbos), see how it generates power (compression, bore, stroke, ignition). There are many books "out there", I'd get a Haynes manual, A Chiltons Manual, and the GM Shop Manual for your F body. Read up, then make a list of parts that you think would add the most power to your F body's drivetrain. Like Viper said, if you're adding much more the sort of power an intake and full exhast system would add, then you'll need to upgrade your suspension, brakes, tires, Roll Cage (if you're looking for sub 11 second 1/4 mile times), transmission, and THEN motor (well, maybe trans and motor at the same time).

            To answer your first question, a cam could add as much or as little power as you have in mind. In our American pushrod V style motors, the cam pushes a pushrod. That pushrod pushes on one side of the rocker arm, the other side of the rocker arm presses down on its intake (or exhaust) Valve. (More knowledgeable F body owners will notice i've left out the lifter step, but i'm trying to make this easy for the kid). An intake valve lets air into the cylinder (where it mixes with fuel and is compressed). An exhaust valve lets exhaust out of the "head" and into the header. The more lift, the more air in, and the more exhaust out, ALL OF THIS CAN EQUAL MORE POWER, if you have the right supporting parts (valves, springs, polished heads, rods, lifters). Ask viper how much power he got from his cam (tho its difficult to say b/c to get the most out of the came you need other parts as we discussed).

            You are basically rebuilding the engine, if you want to add a turbo / SC and do it RIGHT. The better the parts are that you rebuild it with, the longer the motor will last, and the more power you can get from it.

            Bigger heads will give more power b/c they allow more air to come into the cylinder more freely, and more exhaust to come out of the cylinder more freely.

            3.8 Liters (or 231 cubic inches) is the displacement of our motor. Or how much space (in cubic inches) a motor "has in it", basically how big the motor is. This is a rough generalization, keep this in mind. The displacement is acheived by the bore and stroke. The bore is how big the hole is where the piston goes. Its the distance from cylinder wall to cylinder wall, i believe, don't quote me.
            Stroke is how far down the piston travels. a 4.1 liter motor has more bore and stroke than a 3.8. See?

            A stroker is a motor that keeps the bore of the original motor, but makes the piston travel farther down.... more intake, more compression, more power.

            That was a lot to type, lol.

            I just tried to pour my brains onto the keyboard, so guys, correct any clerical errors i might have made.

            Later
            Now, how badly do YOU want to see my brake lights?<br /><br />Pacesetter headers, 3 inch y pipe, high flow cat, magnaflow catback, many suspension mods, intake, built a4 with 3200 torque converter, 5 angle head job, dis 4, firewires, etc etc....

            Comment

            • #7
              ^^ he covered it

              700 crank HP is possible.... the intense car is pushing that at least..

              Would I need bigger heads and a bigger ThrottleBody? What about the Pulleys?
              pullies don't help our car out that much

              there are no bigger tb's for our RWD cars...

              to handle 700HP your goignto need a full rebiuld..... fist you need to figure out if you going SC or Turbo....

              take a look at my mods page for everything i have done... www.turbov6camaro.com/mod.html
              www.turbov6camaro.com
              1997 3800 Series II Camaro
              4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug:
              7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod)
              11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty

              Comment

              • #8
                My final question, the same parts that increase bore and stroke to make a 3.8 into a 4.1L, would these parts have to be replaced into more beefed up parts so they can handle a Turbo? How would I know what parts to get? heh, not to bright here..

                How much power are you putting out viper?
                1997 Camaro RS W/T-Tops<br />All Stock / 200 HP

                Comment

                • #9
                  The parts that increase youre displacement to 4.1L could be custom made to handle the power of a turbo. Since you're gonna be running a blown motor, you need to lower your compression ratio to 8.5 for a light pressure turbo/sc. The more boost, the lower the compression ratio. I believe you want to go with forged internals. You can mix and match pistons and conrods within reason. Make sure the piston rings, bolts, studs, etc are ALL UPGRADED otherwise its like running an f1 car with weenie kia tires.
                  Now, how badly do YOU want to see my brake lights?<br /><br />Pacesetter headers, 3 inch y pipe, high flow cat, magnaflow catback, many suspension mods, intake, built a4 with 3200 torque converter, 5 angle head job, dis 4, firewires, etc etc....

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    for 1500.. you can do alot of other things...

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Yeah, i was gonna suggest you just buy a 00-02 SS or Ws6. You'll enjoy it more, less maintenance, less tuning. More power!
                      Now, how badly do YOU want to see my brake lights?<br /><br />Pacesetter headers, 3 inch y pipe, high flow cat, magnaflow catback, many suspension mods, intake, built a4 with 3200 torque converter, 5 angle head job, dis 4, firewires, etc etc....

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Need4Camaro:
                        My final question, the same parts that increase bore and stroke to make a 3.8 into a 4.1L, would these parts have to be replaced into more beefed up parts so they can handle a Turbo? How would I know what parts to get? heh, not to bright here..

                        How much power are you putting out viper?
                        not sure yet still no turbo on the car waiting to get the cash for my T-70
                        www.turbov6camaro.com
                        1997 3800 Series II Camaro
                        4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug:
                        7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod)
                        11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 00firebird:
                          for 1500.. you can do alot of other things...
                          Well first, I can't trade my car in, so for me it would be cheaper...

                          Second, even if I could I really like my car so I wouldn't anyway. This project isn't a bang for the buck project, money's no concern, I just want to see what I can achieve.
                          1997 Camaro RS W/T-Tops<br />All Stock / 200 HP

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            why does evryone seem to think that the stroker kit is a waste of money? I have read on more than one occasion someone say that you could spend 1500 on something else/better? it seems this engine is perfect for the person who wants a v6 that can beat up on V8's all day long. didnt the guy from ZZP run a 12.9 with that motor? I plan to build this motor for my car in the future and I dont see how it is a waste of money? enlighten me if I am wrong here. thanks.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Amphilophus:
                              why does evryone seem to think that the stroker kit is a waste of money? I have read on more than one occasion someone say that you could spend 1500 on something else/better? it seems this engine is perfect for the person who wants a v6 that can beat up on V8's all day long. didnt the guy from ZZP run a 12.9 with that motor? I plan to build this motor for my car in the future and I dont see how it is a waste of money? enlighten me if I am wrong here. thanks.
                              the crank is weak and it breaks if you add boost or NOS.. wee need a forged crank to do it....
                              www.turbov6camaro.com
                              1997 3800 Series II Camaro
                              4600 Stall for my ride to the mall :chug:
                              7.18 @ 99.77 1/8 -1.8x sixty (current quickest v6 fbod)
                              11.23 @ unk 5 1/4 - 7.19 1/8 - 1.83 sixty

                              Comment

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