Valve Spring Problems???

[AZ3.8Camaro]

Well in looking into my timing chain tensioner problem, I am pretty sure the install height of the v6 compared to the ls1 is causing a problem.
I got to looking into it, and I think there could be a big problem with using ls1 springs.
Using this data from a post I found doing a search,

LS1 valve spring
install 1.800" / 75 lbs
max lift 0.525" / 230 lbs
Installed on a v6 at 1.700"
Brings the max lift down to .425 - this is bad.

2001 LS6 valve spring
install 1.800" / 90 lbs
max lift 0.540" / 250 lbs
Installed on a v6 at 1.700"
Brings the max lift down to .440 - this is bad.

2002 LS6 valve spring
install 1.800" / 90 lbs
max lift 0.600" / 300 lbs
Installed on a v6 at 1.700"
Brings the max lift down to .500 - this is still bad.

SLP valve spring
install 1.800" / 90 lbs
max lift 0.610" / 320 lbs
Installed on a v6 at 1.700"
Brings the max lift down to .510 - this is bad, but almost right.

So I think installing any lsX valve spring on the v6 overloads the springs because of the difference in installed height. The seat loads become much to high. Is there any other retainers you could run to remedy this?

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

what about the 915 or 918 springs?

i dont know if TI retians do anything for that or not?

[AZ3.8Camaro]

I don't have any data for those.

[98Camaro3.8]

Comp Cams 26915
Installed 1.800" / 105 lbs
Max lift 1.200" / 293 lbs
Installed on a v6 at 1.700"
Brings the max lift down to .500

Comp Cams 26918
Installed 1.800" / 130 lbs
Max lift 1.200" / 318 lbs
Installed on a v6 at 1.700"
Brings the max lift down to .500


This is a real interesting discussion. I'm interested in seeing what turns up. I'm running .538" lift...well past what the springs are rated at when you add the .100" lift at install height.

[AZ3.8Camaro]

Indeed. I imagine its ok to a degree because there are no alternatives really. I am definately uncomfortable with the ls1 springs now.

For my cam, which runs just around .507" the best option might be going back to stock springs, especially since I don't rev the car past 6000rpm anyways.

What retainers are you running Matt? I think the comp retainers might give you back some of the peak lift by raising the install height a little bit.

[AZ3.8Camaro]

AHHHHH I figured it out...
http://www.zzperformance.com/products1.php?id=108

I am on stock retainers.
The modded ones will bring you back to the 1.8" install height! They are on my list.

[98Camaro3.8]

I'm running stock retainers as well.

Guess I can add that to the list of **** to be done to my car.

[AZ3.8Camaro]

I think we may have solved both of our noise problems. *fingers crossed!* I will get it done, and put a new stock chain and dampener on and let you know what happens!

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

what up with your timing chain?

i'm on a stock replacement chain a few peeps said that was bad now i'm kinda neverouse about it lol

i guees i need to upgrade to a singal roller chain?

[98Camaro3.8]

Originally posted by viper04af:
what up with your timing chain?

i'm on a stock replacement chain a few peeps said that was bad now i'm kinda neverouse about it lol

i guees i need to upgrade to a singal roller chain?

High load valve springs cause the chain to eat into the tensioner and grind it all away.

Have heard that the single roller isn't meant for high load valve springs either. Best bet is double roller and ditch the balance shaft.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by 98Camaro3.8:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by viper04af:
what up with your timing chain?

i'm on a stock replacement chain a few peeps said that was bad now i'm kinda neverouse about it lol

i guees i need to upgrade to a singal roller chain?

High load valve springs cause the chain to eat into the tensioner and grind it all away.

Have heard that the single roller isn't meant for high load valve springs either. Best bet is double roller and ditch the balance shaft. </font>[/QUOTE]well crap

ehh don't you have to pull the motor to take out that shaft?

[AZ3.8Camaro]

Yeah the single roller sucks.
Double roller is the way to go if you have anything more than the comp 105lb springs. Maybe even on the comp 105s.

I have ls1 springs on stock retainers, since the installed height is wrong, it is causing the preload to be way higher than it should (probably higher than 105). This causes the chain dampener to be ground away by the timing chain. If it wears all the way down, it could break the chain. Furthermore, all the dampener material goes into your oil. :(

I am really confident than this will fix it.

Anyone have specs on the stock v6 springs?

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by AZ3.8Camaro:
Yeah the single roller sucks.
Double roller is the way to go if you have anything more than the comp 105lb springs. Maybe even on the comp 105s.

I have ls1 springs on stock retainers, since the installed height is wrong, it is causing the preload to be way higher than it should (probably higher than 105). This causes the chain dampener to be ground away by the timing chain. If it wears all the way down, it could break the chain. Furthermore, all the dampener material goes into your oil. :(

I am really confident than this will fix it.

Anyone have specs on the stock v6 springs?

i think they are 80#

[98Camaro3.8]

New stockers are 60 lbs according to ZZP. WickEdSix9838 measured his 60K mile stockers at 45 lbs.

Originally posted by viper04af:

ehh don't you have to pull the motor to take out that shaft?

Leave it there and just remove the gear that drives it.

[Turbo V6 Camaro]

Originally posted by 98Camaro3.8:
New stockers are 60 lbs according to ZZP. WickEdSix9838 measured his 60K mile stockers at 45 lbs.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by viper04af:

ehh don't you have to pull the motor to take out that shaft?

Leave it there and just remove the gear that drives it. </font>[/QUOTE]umm how much time to install one of these? do you have to degree it or anything? or can you take off stock and replace with this long as you dont move any thing?

basically is somthing i can do with no speical tools?