Tuner

[beyerch]

Here's a video of the text gauges at work :

http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...RichFuelKR.mpg

Here's a couple other videos from that day [img]smile.gif[/img]
------
#1 - Dyno run for Canadian folks (in kph). http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...ndGear_Kph.mpg

#2 - Dyno run for American folks (in mph)
http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...ndGear_MPH.mpg

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

...

still unimpressed..

heres why

reponces
#1) I emailed you (3 times) in 2003 about a tune for my car.
You dident respond. Thanks for that BTW.

#2)blah blah big deal HPT has all the same stuff.. the stuff you need anyway, I have yet to run into something that was missing that they dident get to me in 48 hours or less..

#3)ok

everyhting below that)
::spins finger around in the air::

xml and csv output is nice and all.. but i dont see the application?? not to mention the fact that probably 90% of the people who are interested in tuning have NO CLUE what those formats even are.


still waiting :(

[beyerch]

As far as the editors go, there are a fwe UNIQUE difference in the editor.

#1 - Table editing. / Color coding.

The other software color codes cells to alert the user to changes in the data. However, it appears that the color shade goes from green to red and that the coloring is solely determined on the "largeness" of the number. For instance 10 maybe green but 50 would be red. While this seems to indicate some usefullness, it really doesn't accomplish much. What if the value originally is 50. Its red, but why ? red indicates something I shoudl be aware of .

We take a different approach. We store a STOCK binary in the editor. When you edit your file you can put the stock values SIDE BY SIDE versus the current values. So that way you can see in real time what type of changes you have. We took this oen step further and now added cell coloring and pop ups to indicate to you the VARIANCE between your current value and the stock value.

for instance, http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...p_12202004.jpg
or
http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...p_12202004.jpg
and
http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...ingwFLabel.jpg

Once again we use green to red as well; however, they actually have some significance.

If the item is green its within 15% of original value. By placing the mouse OVER the current value, it will show you current, stock, and a % variance.

If the item is orangish it in the 15 to 30 range.

If the item is 30+ it will be a shade of red.

Now... Lets say the table is something like a DTC table, where you have only a few options such as trip code on 1st run, 2nd run, 3rd run, or disabled. That scheme doesn't make a lot of sense because just chaging the value ONE TIME makes it a variance of more than 30%. So the color coding is DIFFERENT for this type of value. In this scenario, if its green, it is a match to stock. If it is brown/orange it is NOT a match to stock, but the code is still enabled. If the item is RED it means its not a match to stock AND you have disabled the code. Once again placing the mouse over the item will tell you current and previous value.

If the item you are editing is a TRUE/FALSE or YES/NO type item, then Green means its a stock match. Red means its not a stock match.

#2 - Another change we have implement is drop down selections for limited entry fields. This limits "user error" and makes it easier for you to see your options.

such as : http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...dWarnings2.jpg

#3 - Another item we offer is MASS Drag and Drop Editing. With our editor you can open TWO FILES (or more) SIDE BY SIDE. You can then drag and drop either one item (such as MAF airflow) onto the other file. Now you can even drop a whole tree structure such as Transmission.

http://www.digitalhorsepowerinc.com/...ragandDrop.jpg

This GREATLY reduces editing time if you are working on multiple files that are similar or if you have some common settings you want to move around.


now, let me find some more scantool screen shots and i'll shut up already.

[beyerch]

sorry fixed links some were bad.

as far as

reponces
#1) I emailed you (3 times) in 2003 about a tune for my car.
You dident respond. Thanks for that BTW.

#2)blah blah big deal HPT has all the same stuff.. the stuff you need anyway, I have yet to run into something that was missing that they dident get to me in 48 hours or less..

#3)ok

everyhting below that)
::spins finger around in the air::

Yes you sound just like your friend you probably know him quite well. ;)

I'm not going to sit here and argue WITH YOU. You obviously have a grudge and nothing I am going to say is going to have any effect for YOU.

I have posted enough info for everyone else to look at and if they choose to order either product, I have no problem with their decision.

As far as you I really think you should stop flaming sponsors of the board as all 'm doing is offering another OPTION for your community.....

$.02

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

1) I dont use the color charts 3d graphs or anything of the like, I prefer simple numbers, however the colors do help show the general trends which is nice.. but not something you acctauly use to tune by..

2) ok.. basic gui design stuff.. goood work.. I guess

3) hpt allows cut/paste from any v6 thats all i really need.. it also now does alot of special cut and paste adjustments based off data collected in the scanner.. now thats uesfull..

again.. all interesting.. but not usefull

I am not arguing, just trying to get you all to step it up a bit..

mark my words, if you all made something worth having I would switch in a heartbeat.. but i am not seeing it.. none of thsoe features make tuning really any easyer.. as far as acctual tuning and decision making goes.. yeah the GUI stuff may save me a few thenths of a second.. but big deal?

think about how you can make it easyer for complete idiots (like myself) to be able to do their own tuning..

and BTW, So someone poor indavidual dosent end up with a bad reputation. I dident live in MD at the time [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ January 13, 2005, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: AllTheGoodNamesAreGone ]

[98Camaro3.8]

Speaking as someone with no experience with either system, I would like to submit the following:

It seems to me that DHP offers just as much as HP Tuners. DHP appears to offer more than HPT in some areas, while HPT may be better in other areas. For the most part, however, they seem pretty evenly matched.

AllTheGoodNamesAreGone, you are one of the few members on this site that I respect. I agree with most of what you have to say on other topics, but in this case I have to disagree. Just judging by what's been posted here, it looks like you have a beef against DHP. You've mentioned things that they don't do that HPT does. DHP responds showing that they indeed do all these, and you reply that you don't use them so it doesn't matter. I don't know the whole story, so I'm not going to make any assumptions. Please don't take this as a flame against you, though.

think about how you can make it easyer for complete idiots (like myself) to be able to do their own tuning..

Is that really a good idea? When it comes to things like cams, forced induction, etc, do you want to see a bunch of noobs who have no idea what they were doing trying to get in over their heads? IMHO, I think tuning is something that should be left to people who understand what they're doing. They may not understand it when they purchase it, but as long as they're willing to learn and understand what they're doing, everything is good. Sure, options such as the Hypertech (if it worked) are nice for a general tune, but when it comes to real performance you should understand just what you're doing.


Personally, I am not too fond of HP Tuners. I do not like how they charge for upgrades to their software. As a software developer, I don't believe that is how a software company should be run. To me as a consumer, it shows they just want money and may not really care.


Finally, having more than one product on the market is obviously good. Companies competing against one another will only help us in the long run.


(I think that was the longest post I have ever written) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[beyerch]

I'll give you a couple of reasons how me make it easier for the beginner.

#1 - We provide you with a starter fiel with basic changes done to it, such as limiters, etc.

#2 - Our editor has a change log. IT shows you what has been chagned in the file since day #1. You can view this to see how we made the changes in #1

#3 - You can IMPORT and EXPORT data. You can export YOUR maf table and email it to your friend. Then all they have to do is right click, import and pick the file. This makes it real easy to make a list of basic stuff like different injector types, maf tables, etc, etc.

#4 - I have alot of things for the next release that will really save time but for now you'll just have to stock with those other millisecond time savers I guess ....

Originally posted by AllTheGoodNamesAreGone:
1) I dont use the color charts 3d graphs or anything of the like, I prefer simple numbers, however the colors do help show the general trends which is nice.. but not something you acctauly use to tune by..

2) ok.. basic gui design stuff.. goood work.. I guess

3) hpt allows cut/paste from any v6 thats all i really need.. it also now does alot of special cut and paste adjustments based off data collected in the scanner.. now thats uesfull..

again.. all interesting.. but not usefull

I am not arguing, just trying to get you all to step it up a bit..

mark my words, if you all made something worth having I would switch in a heartbeat.. but i am not seeing it.. none of thsoe features make tuning really any easyer.. as far as acctual tuning and decision making goes.. yeah the GUI stuff may save me a few thenths of a second.. but big deal?

think about how you can make it easyer for complete idiots (like myself) to be able to do their own tuning..

and BTW, So someone poor indavidual dosent end up with a bad reputation. I dident live in MD at the time [img]smile.gif[/img]

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

Dude (directed at 98Camaro3.8).. trust me.. hpt is better.. do your self a favor and look at both.. long and hard before you get one (if you do).. read about what features people use and how they use them..

you will then find that everything dhp lists as excusive features are actualy pretty much usless.. where as the hand full I listed earlyer that HPT has I use LITERALY every SINGLE time I go tuning.. before I edit a single value..

true about the idiot proof stuff.. i guess there is a limit (or height requierment) on how dumb you can be.. however features like those make it much simpler for DIY people like myself to get started..

I dont like the upgrade charges so much either.. but when you think about it.. its what like $8-9 a month or so.. that if you want to be current all the time..

innovation cost money unfortunatly..

take LS1 edit for example.. untill HPT came out.. they dident have a scanner, and they very rarely updated their software.. why?? becuase they dident have to.. they where the only game in town.. and they they allready got your money..

the way i see it the update charge is insentive to keep producing new releases and features..

but.. i agree.. i think i would like it more if it was a little cheeper (who wouldent).. but unfortuantly quality has its price..

heck.. if you want to buy dhp.. bring it over here.. i will do a comparison for yah...

then you can trade it in for hptuners.. [img]smile.gif[/img] then you will only be out like $150...

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258350
here is an example of a usefull feature.. and what i can do for a car.. i am thinking the guys over at dhp are having a hard time understanding this..

[ January 13, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: AllTheGoodNamesAreGone ]

[beyerch]

here is an example of a usefull feature.. and what i can do for a car.. i am thinking the guys over at dhp are having a hard time understanding this..

Actually, I think you are just being rude. That is nice they are adjusting tables and yes it is useful for SOME people.

For the other guys, we offer quite a nice package that is significantly cheaper, comes with a basic starter file, has more tuning parameters, a more logical editing interface, etc.

Its very funny how anytime I list something WE do or somethign we did first, its something insignificant; however, when the "other" guy has something you throw it up like its the best thing on the planet.

For instance you say how you want great features for the beginner. I name 3 that are very good beginner options. What do you do ? You say we add a bunch of worthless feature and then you mention how they add resolution to the MAP sensor which is something hardly ANY beginner here will need. That makes perfect sense ? ? ?

Your review is quite biased and I think its pretty obvious. Have you even USED any of our recent versions of the software ? You keep saying how you have compared them, but comparing our BETA software to the NEWEST release of the competition sounds pretty lame.


--------
1997 Grand Prix SE 3800 Series II NA w/ Novi 1000. 12.93 @ 105.11 (no weight reduction)
1998 Grand Prix GTP 3800 Series II SC. 13.8 @ 103.9 (no traction :( )
2004 Grand Prix GTP Comp G 3800 Series II w/PT Turbo. 401 WHP

[ January 14, 2005, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: beyerch ]

[AllTheGoodNamesAreGone]

how do you know what release I saw? I have not seen the latest. But I saw the two before that.

Simply unimpressed..

The things you listed are not real features. they are nice things to have.. but they are by no meens special.. or unique..

regarless.. I think I am done..

If anyone wants to waste their money with you all thats fine..

but there are alot of big things and surprises comming from HPT (quite soon) that I unfortunatly shuld keep to myself.. I have allready blabbed on about enough stuff for one day..

[98FBird]

hey everyone, this is not a productive discussion. Both of you make good points, but I've gotta say, allthegoodnamesaregone you're just antagonizing a situation and are running down another product. If you want to badmouth DHP, do it somewhere else. If you want to be constructive and not just wave your personal "BS" flag.. go right ahead. We're in the business of supporting other enthusiasts, not dogging each other.

A review or comparison is one thing, but this is getting petty. [img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/barf.gif[/img]

[beyerch]

I have allready blabbed

I think this is all we can agree on ! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[97rs4life]

DHP, just ignore ATGNAG. Everyone here knows he hates everyone on camarov6/firebirdv6.com and just flames everyones posts. We have learned to ignore him around here.

Keep up the good work with the tuning package and thanks for giving us a second option in tuning! It is to bad that ATGNAG is trying to run you out of here and not thanking you for making competition for HPtuners to contend with.

[Seppo Kaitainen]

Haha, this is like 2 monkeys throwing their own chit at each other.

As far as I am concerned both HPTuners and DHP sucks.

I know HPT sux because I have it. I have not seen DHP but mostly read not so great things about there tunes.

[beyerch]

Seppo,

I won't even go in to it with you about our "tunes". [img]smile.gif[/img] All I can say is we helped put the first 3800 SC in the 10's and 11's. We also have the fastest 04 tuned car and the highest HP at 401 hp. I will try to suck a little less though for you ! ;) [img]smile.gif[/img]

But why would you say we suck in general when we are discussing a DIY TUNING package. Thats the whole point, we DON'T have to tune it, you get to. [img]smile.gif[/img]

P.S. rs97 : As far as that other guy, yeah I'm taking it with a grain of salt.