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  • I'm still having problems with my car, missfires maybe but from what?

    Ever since I got my cam installed, something is has been wrong, maybe was even wrong before that. The cam is a Comp 206/212.

    The best that I can explain it is that at WOT it feels like somebody hits the brakes just before 5,000 rpms and the power just dies. It pulls great right up till then and just lets off. The odd thing is that it’s not always as the same rpms, it’s done it at 4,500 before and on rare occasions, it won’t do it at all. It’s most common that it will run great when the car is very cold, 110* or so on the temp gage. Another symptom is between 2,000 and 2,500 rpms my car can't pull very well. It does fine lower than that and fine higher than that, but usually doesn't like those rpms but again, it’s never consistent.

    I first thought that it was running lean on the top end so I got a walbro 255 fuel pump, that was a waste of money. I let Robert at Pro Tech drive my car and he told me that my car was misfiring. He blamed it on the Taylor Spark Plug wires which are made for a 99 and not for my car. That day I put the stock wires back on and now have MSD wires waiting to be cut and put on the car, only problem though, it still does the same thing as it did with the taylors. A few of my terminals on my coils were rusted so I took them in and had those tested for resistance at AutoZone, they all had the correct resistance. Should I pay a shop to test them in the car to make sure this isn’t the problem?

    I did Auto tap again with unsure results. Actually the first two runs that I made with it, the car ran perfectly, I was shocked. Then on the 3rd and forth runs it did the same old cutting out thing where it just dies out at 5,000 rpms only to struggle to pull all the way to red line. Here's a zip file with my autotap logs http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/ttop.../ATap_Logs.zip

    Here's a Excel file where I compiled what I noticed that changed any http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/ttop340/car/all.xls
    (Stupid Angelfire, copy and paste the link and it works.)

    If I missed something on Auto Tap that I was suppose to be looking at, please advise and I can record more logs. I noticed a lot of misfires in the misfire history for cylinders 1, 2 and 3. There were a few on 4 and 6 with none on 5. I did have a problem with spark plug wires falling off though for a bit so that could be that.

    Could it be just the knock sensor picking up either valve train clatter, exhaust noise or something and thinking its knock? If so, are there desensitized knock sensors out there? Can I desensitize it with a resistor or something?

    [ January 17, 2003: Message edited by: Ttop34 ]</p>
    1997 Nassau Blue Vette<br />1989 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (lifted with 31\" tires)<br />2000 V6 Camaro, loud, cammed 210rwhp *SOLD*

  • #2
    your logs are hard as hell to follow.

    You have major knock retard..

    You're logging way too much crap which slows down update time
    THis is what you need to log:
    Engine Speed
    TPS
    Mass Air Flow Sensor 1
    Injector Pulse Width #1
    Ignition TIming Advance
    Knock Retar
    Knock ESC Counter (Knock Count)
    O2 B1 S1 MV
    O2 B2 S1 MV
    LTFT B1
    LTFT B2

    You could be having the same problem I had with the false knock. :( I still haven't cured mine. Are your heads stock? Valvetrain stock?
    Keith - Chicago<br /><a href=\"http://www.hptuners.com\" target=\"_blank\">HP Tuners - PCM Reprogramming</a><br /><a href=\"http://www.dxsoftware.com/magnus/\" target=\"_blank\">97 Firebird V6 to LS1 swap</a><br /><b>V8 9.967@132.78</b> 1.322 60\' NA Heads/Cam<br /><b>V8 10.295@128.48</b> 1.363 60\' NA Cam Only<br /><b>V8 10.987@119.31</b> 1.422 60\' NA Stock Internals<br /><b>V6 13.674@98.22</b> NA<br /><b>V6 12.394@104.91</b> N20 100HP

    Comment


    • #3
      My heads are stock, I have the Comp Springs and pushrods from PFYC.com. I just put in the MSD wires and so far atleast, it doesn't seem to hessitate between 2,000 and 2,500 rpms any more. It does still seem to have some hessitation just before 5,000 rpms but not like it did. I haven't got to test it out thoroughly yet though. I'll AutoTap again soon and post the readings, maybe tonight if I see my roommate between now and then.

      So what do we know about the knock sensor, how does it work? How can it be desensitized and are there desensitized ones for sale?
      1997 Nassau Blue Vette<br />1989 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (lifted with 31\" tires)<br />2000 V6 Camaro, loud, cammed 210rwhp *SOLD*

      Comment


      • #4
        <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ttop34:
        My heads are stock, I have the Comp Springs and pushrods from PFYC.com. I just put in the MSD wires and so far atleast, it doesn't seem to hessitate between 2,000 and 2,500 rpms any more. It does still seem to have some hessitation just before 5,000 rpms but not like it did. I haven't got to test it out thoroughly yet though. I'll AutoTap again soon and post the readings, maybe tonight if I see my roommate between now and then.

        So what do we know about the knock sensor, how does it work? How can it be desensitized and are there desensitized ones for sale?
        <hr></blockquote>

        I have heard you can desensotize knock sensors by customer computer programming.

        Comment


        • #5
          Can you not just desensitize it with a resistor? How does a knock sensor work exactly? What exactly does a knock sensor not need to hear and what does it need to hear? What's the difference?

          I posted before I read everything, there's a lot here about Knock Sensors. I'll keep reading.

          [ January 20, 2003: Message edited by: Ttop34 ]</p>
          1997 Nassau Blue Vette<br />1989 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (lifted with 31\" tires)<br />2000 V6 Camaro, loud, cammed 210rwhp *SOLD*

          Comment


          • #6
            get some good autotap logs first before you go playing with knock sensors.
            Keith - Chicago<br /><a href=\"http://www.hptuners.com\" target=\"_blank\">HP Tuners - PCM Reprogramming</a><br /><a href=\"http://www.dxsoftware.com/magnus/\" target=\"_blank\">97 Firebird V6 to LS1 swap</a><br /><b>V8 9.967@132.78</b> 1.322 60\' NA Heads/Cam<br /><b>V8 10.295@128.48</b> 1.363 60\' NA Cam Only<br /><b>V8 10.987@119.31</b> 1.422 60\' NA Stock Internals<br /><b>V6 13.674@98.22</b> NA<br /><b>V6 12.394@104.91</b> N20 100HP

            Comment


            • #7
              Since your car seems to run fine when its cold/cooler you could try a few things to make it run colder. A 160 degree t-stat, maybe a set of spark plugs that are a range colder than stock, and maybe try some racing gas or octane booster(you should be running 92/93 octane w/ the cam).

              ZZPerformance has a couple articles on Knock Retard, that would be a good read for you.
              Keith - 99 'maro - White M5 - bumpstick and boltons - 13.65 @ 101 N/A
              "I ain't too big to listen to the rumors, I'm just too @#$% big to pay attention to them" - Dr. Dre
              http://seppo.hopto.org/

              Comment


              • #8
                Just got though playing with the exports in Excel, here's where you can see the autotap logs and the excel files:

                http://www.geocities.com/ttop34/CarP...utoTapLogs.zip

                http://www.geocities.com/ttop34/CarP...ExcelFiles.zip
                Of course with geocities you have to put a space at the end of the address and hit enter.

                Run #
                1---cool start and idled in the garage for a while
                2---getting on the highway
                3---from stop light, took off fast and then slowed
                4---scanning that 2,000 - 2,500 rpm problem
                5---getting on highway
                6---on the way home again with the low rpm problem
                7---getting off the highway and going to the garage

                The other three are 0-90+mph runs.

                I think if the computer could give me more than 14.9 degrees of KR it would. It kicked in earlier than usual. I also included the post cat o2 readings, it's the stock o2 sensor with a 1/4 watt 1k Ohm resistor in the return line, the computer seems to like it better than o2 sims.

                Seppo Kaitainen, I currently have a 180* T stat and I'm running NGK TR5's gapped at .06, I would love it if that's all I have to do to fix this.

                Oh yeah, as you can tell, my MSD wires didn't fix the 2,000 - 2,500rpm problem because it wasn't a missfire, it's KR. Well, I wasn't scanning for missfires, should I?

                So can I play with the knock sensors yet?

                [ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Ttop34 ]</p>
                1997 Nassau Blue Vette<br />1989 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (lifted with 31\" tires)<br />2000 V6 Camaro, loud, cammed 210rwhp *SOLD*

                Comment


                • #9
                  are you runnig the"VS" cam by any chance
                  97 Camaro RS<p>Big stall converter, Big fuel pump, Big cam and alot of nitrous

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    jersey,

                    "VS" cam: Comp Cam 206/216 115 lsa .504/.504
                    www.zzperformance.com

                    My cam: Comp Cam 206/212 113lsa .512/.520
                    www.pfyc.com
                    1997 Nassau Blue Vette<br />1989 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (lifted with 31\" tires)<br />2000 V6 Camaro, loud, cammed 210rwhp *SOLD*

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      ohhh ok.. sorry. well i'm not a cam expert. but maybe something went wrong on the install. do you do it yourself? have you thought of taking it to a shop for a second opinion. just trying to help out
                      97 Camaro RS<p>Big stall converter, Big fuel pump, Big cam and alot of nitrous

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I looked at your logs.. you are dipping in to 7 o2 readings, that's not helping.

                        What octain and plugs you using?

                        How's the valvetrain sound, Notice any funny sounds around 5K rpm's?

                        It seems you only get significat KR at WOT.
                        Keith - Chicago<br /><a href=\"http://www.hptuners.com\" target=\"_blank\">HP Tuners - PCM Reprogramming</a><br /><a href=\"http://www.dxsoftware.com/magnus/\" target=\"_blank\">97 Firebird V6 to LS1 swap</a><br /><b>V8 9.967@132.78</b> 1.322 60\' NA Heads/Cam<br /><b>V8 10.295@128.48</b> 1.363 60\' NA Cam Only<br /><b>V8 10.987@119.31</b> 1.422 60\' NA Stock Internals<br /><b>V6 13.674@98.22</b> NA<br /><b>V6 12.394@104.91</b> N20 100HP

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm no expert, but you pcm is wigging out after 5k rpms. And once you hit 3rd gear your lean as a mofo.

                          NGK TR6's, a 160 t-stat, and some race gas & or octane booster. They are all relativily cheap things to try. I'd also go w/ an 02 sim...
                          Keith - 99 'maro - White M5 - bumpstick and boltons - 13.65 @ 101 N/A
                          "I ain't too big to listen to the rumors, I'm just too @#$% big to pay attention to them" - Dr. Dre
                          http://seppo.hopto.org/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm using 92 octane(best we have out in Lubbock), plugs are NGK TR5's gapped at .060. Actually I just noticed that I have a tick on the driver's side, it wasn't there yesterday. It's probably the rocker bolt that I replaced the other day before I found out that you can't over tighten them on a 3.8 or a LS1. At 5,000 rpms I can't hear much over the exhaust which could in itself be causeing the problem. So am I running lean because of the KR? With the walbro 255, I'm wondering why the heck I'm running lean. I have a fuel filter sitting in the garage, I'll swap that in after work as well as tighten up that rocker bolt.

                            Seppo Kaitainen,
                            What do you mean by wigging out? On the first run I only hit .790 and they aren't entirely related to when I would get KR. 2nd and 3rd runs I only got 7's in 3rd and still got KR in all three gears. If you want you can search the board for my member# and the word "o2 sim", you'll find plenty of posts about them not working on my car, I get a low voltage signal code in the computer.

                            I can try TR6's, 160 Tstat and the race gas if you think that's the problem. I don't really see running a 20* cooler T stat doing much though as well as the plugs, that's to prevent detonation right? The race gas is like 104 octane I think.

                            [ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Ttop34 ]</p>
                            1997 Nassau Blue Vette<br />1989 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (lifted with 31\" tires)<br />2000 V6 Camaro, loud, cammed 210rwhp *SOLD*

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Ttop34:
                              Seppo Kaitainen,
                              What do you mean by wigging out? On the first run I only hit .790 and they aren't entirely related to when I would get KR. 2nd and 3rd runs I only got 7's in 3rd and still got KR in all three gears. If you want you can search the board for my member# and the word "o2 sim", you'll find plenty of posts about them not working on my car, I get a low voltage signal code in the computer.

                              I can try TR6's, 160 Tstat and the race gas if you think that's the problem. I don't really see running a 20* cooler T stat doing much though as well as the plugs, that's to prevent detonation right? The race gas is like 104 octane I think.

                              [ January 21, 2003: Message edited by: Ttop34 ]
                              <hr></blockquote>

                              Whigging out.... I spell not so good. As for the O2 Sim, I just figured it would be better. But if it has never worked, then thats ok. I have no idea if the pcm factors in the 3rd O2 at WOT or not.

                              All of those things will help predetonation. But with the amount of KR your seeing I don't think it'll cure your problem, but it should help some.
                              Keith - 99 'maro - White M5 - bumpstick and boltons - 13.65 @ 101 N/A
                              "I ain't too big to listen to the rumors, I'm just too @#$% big to pay attention to them" - Dr. Dre
                              http://seppo.hopto.org/

                              Comment

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